for most of my indoor training I used ERG, for example: I can do vo2 intervals 6x3m@250-270W.
Then I recently tried my first outdoor workout, which was supposed to be a threshold workout (after TR AI raised my FTP from 210 to 245) with 6min intervals mostly @230w with 2 short spikes @250w. It was incredibly hard to hold the power up. The only way was able to keep power at the targets was to really exaggerate the different parts of the pedalstroke - i.e. sweeping the foot with force, pulling up with force and extend the leg forward with force before pushing down on the pedal again. If I’d just pedaled normally I couldnt hold the power because either my legs would give up after 30sec or power dropped way below 200W.
I thought: maybe I’m a little bit spoiled by ERG and I just have to get the legs used to it, so I deactivated ERG mode the coming indoor sessions. That was 2 weeks ago and I still have trouble holding anything above 200W steady for longer periods of time. I can still manage somehow with the unnatural pedal-stroke, but with higher powers I tend to get knee pain and also I dont feel quite right doin that. I can totally maintain steady power @lower watts with “normal” pedalling, so I dunno if it’s technique or where my problem lies.
The other question I have and maybe it’s related:
Trainerroad as well as Xert estimated my FTP/TP fresh at around 250W. At threshold power I usually have a HR of 165-170, even when my FTP was lower HR always rised to around that number. At 250W my HR is around that level now, too. Additionally Garmin and intervals.icu both calculated my LTHR to be in that range, too - so I would assume it’s at least in the ballpark.
Problem is (especially without ERG) PRE @thresholdfeels more like I’m doing VO2max work in the legs, than riding at FTP. I’m also fairly certain I couldnt hold 250W for 40-70min. Probably not even 20min without ERG. I recently did 2x20m@215W, which was maybe a smidge below what I would think is my FTP (RPE wise). So maybe FTP is too high, but what about LTHR then?
I have a feeling both questions are rooted at the same problem, I just dont have any clue what that could be, so… Any tipps/suggestions?
I’m leaning to do a 20/30/40min test just for the fun of it and to get a number to work with, but I wouldnt know why I’m seemingly the only one that feels stronger in ERG, rather than the other way around
Are you using a different power meter when riding outside vs inside?
If so, are you calibrating them properly and as often as the manufacturer recommends?
This sounds like this could be a discrepancy between inside and outside power, as it’s usually easier to put out power on the road than on an indoor trainer.
Technically: no. Indoors the kickr is set to take powerdata from the crank powermeter, too. I would even say that it also feels easier indoors. Probably because there arent any road conditions like micro fluctuations in gradient and stuff.
What I cannot understand is that nevertheless indoor or outdoor or ERG or not: HR for a given power is always roughly the same (and seems to correlate with calculated FTP by different plattforms, although I still dont believe I can hold that power for long), it really is just RPE that is so much harder without ERG, outdoors or not.
So you’re saying that you can hold the power with erg, but even indoors with erg turned off you can’t hold the same power unless you resort to pedaling drills? Even if you pedal at the same cadence in erg vs. not erg indoors?
More or less: yes. Without ERG it does vary a lot more naturally, but its in the same ballpark. Maybe 5rpm more without ERG at higher watts. The cadence goes higher the higher the targeted watts - which except for the pedaling drills feels natural again. (85-90@200-220w, 95-100@250, 105-110@270-300)
I decided to build a custom workout with 3x10min what TR thinks my FTP is and lets say… I had a nice productive VO2-Max workout
5min into the first interval I had to pause for a minute and completed the other 4min afterwards. I set the trainer to ERG mode and started the second interval only to have to make a pause after 4min this time. I tried the second half but couldnt do it and lowered the resistance. The third interval I did at roughly what I think my FTP is and RPE felt like I’m in the ballpark, even though I was tired by then and really looked forward to the end of the workout by now
What else I took from that workout:
Maybe I should have a closer look at my HR, in all intervals my HR rose way above LTHR, even in the last one (I was cooked by then though). Averages were not as high in all three intervals though and I think I got a skewed understanding of where my HR goes for a given power, exactly because I made the mistake to only look at said averages.
What remains is: I still have problems holding high powers without ERG, despite fatiguing it felt easier and better in ERG. I also feel like the problem is fatiguing muscles in leg and hip because of the unnatural movement more than the effort itself. Maybe it really is just a problem of getting used to it, but then again: my knee shouldnt hurt while pedalling I incorporated pedaling drills at the end of the workout and will continue to in the upcoming workouts and see if it gets better…
