Have seen a similar post before but here goes mine.
I bonk 40 mins into Andrews workout every single time. I do my single leg drills and then in the “recovery” phase I basically just fade. I am ok to do harder stuff on the same day, just shortly after. Is my body horrible at utilizing fat for fuel? Should I introduce fasted rides or change my nutrition?
I’d be interested to know more about your symptoms of bonking. If you manage fine on harder workouts then you aren’t bonking.
Also, it shouldn’t be at all related to fat adaptation. Even if you were terrible at utilizing fat, your body would just use more glycogen to fuel this workout.
Are you fueling this workout differently to all the others? And are you doing this as part of a plan or just an individual workout?
I was not precise enough saying I can manage a harder workout. I am not doing them right after but later in the day when I am back to my normal self.
My symptoms are following: my legs get progressively heaver, I take a gel that normally works well and fast for me with no improvement, my wattage continues dropping until I just cannot produce the desired 65-75% of FTP with no energy left even for a cooldown. I tried pre-fueling with no luck. Andrews is my cryptonite!
I was trying to get started on the climbing road race - mid volume but I am not getting past that one. I simply cannot tell if I am very inefficient at that power and need to keep pushing or just abandon that one and move on. I might be too stubborn and curious to just let it go
Doubt you are bonking. Not enough time to drain your stores. For the source of the fade I would check in order:
- Hydration… drinking enough?
- Thermal control. do you have sufficient cooling going?
- Bike Fit one leg drills will seriously degrade your capacity in a poor fit.
Always have 2 bottles that I go through during a workout.
I don’t really heat up much at the intensity but always have a fan running
Bike fit is an interesting idea - first time I tried the workout was on my old bike that I replaced with a new bike in the process and had a pro bike fit done. I could try to skip the drills to test this theory.
As far as I can see, Andrews only appears in Sweet Spot base. Have you completed the base and build phases? If you have done all the other workouts then Andrews should be easy. I don’t like doing these recovery workouts, but it’s because they’re boring and my discipline is such that I lose focus. They should be very manageable from a strength/fitness point of view.
Can you share your file for the failed workouts and maybe a couple from other successful ones?
Also mention what trainer you are using: The flywheel or lack thereof can impinge on the impact of the OLDs. If in doubt sub in quadrants or spin-ups to break up the monotony. Just on the hydration/cooling stakes. You probably won’t need to fuel up on such a ride. If you do take a gel your water usage goes up… or at least mine used too. YMMV.
Also on the fit question did the fitter raise or lower your position?
I have skipped base and build because I have been following a different plan since May and just completed Zwift academy. Have been doing great on long outdoor endurance rides but struggling on climbs (w/kg issue) so decided to jump into the specialization plan to work on my climbing form before my next ride in the mountains in December.
I am going to do one of the other workouts in the plan today and see how it goes.
What time of day are you doing Andrews? When was your previous meal prior to the session? Are you trying to lose weight?
If Andrews is a struggle how are you managing workouts like Mount Field i.e 3x12-minute Tempo / low sweet spot intervals at 85% FTP with 3 minute recoveries.
I can’t see it being Bonking unless you are going into the session very heavily depleted.
Maybe a muscle endurance problem?
I would recommend doing a ramp test and at least a couple of workouts from base and build to get a feel for Trainer Road. Jumping in to speciality sounds like a recipe for disaster, even if you are carrying good form.
Can you share your Andrews files and give us an insight to your FTP?
I went down a size in bike and been put in a more aggresive / slammed position - my saddle has been raised a little compared to previous bike to prevent power loss. Crank length is the same and the saddle has been moved from old bike to new.
Are you doing Andrews the day after your Ramp test as in Climbing RR? If not when was the last time you tested your FTP? Or did you make a manual entry after Zwift? Same power source for Zwift academy into now on TR?
What you’re experiencing isn’t a bonk. It’s possible you’re just fatigued going into the ride, or maybe you made a sizable adjustment to FTP prior to that workout?
What power source are you using during the single leg drills? Are you conducting those drills in erg mode or resistance mode?
I am on Wahoo Kickr Snap.
Are you attempting to maintain power via erg mode while doing your ILT drills?
My FTP has been determined by the ramp test (10 higher than what I have on Zwft), and I think I waited a day between ramp and Andrews the first time - I was in serious pain after that ramp.
I am doing workouts in erg mode and keeping cadence in the recommended 85-95 rpm range which is pretty comfortable for me.
My guess based on what you’ve shared here is that you’re trying to maintain a high target power during the ILT drills and that’s crushing your legs.
I am going to do a couple of other workouts and then get back to evil Andrews and turn down the intensity just to try where it goes.
Will report back
You still haven’t mentioned why you chose Andrews, especially as it’s quite an unusual workout to do after a ramp test. You also don’t seem to want to share your data with us, which is fair enough but please realise that this limits how much people can help you.
This is just my personal opinion, but I would suggest doing the base and build phases first. They can still offer great benefit to you, despite good current form. And your misdiagnosis of bonking suggests to me that there’s a lot that you can learn about training and about yourself from these early plans that will help you to make the most of a speciality plan when you get there.
(Andrews is after the ramp test in the Climbing Road Race mid-volume plan.)