Avoiding Overtraining & Fatigue, Collagen Supplements, and More – Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 462

Feb 22, 2024 The Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
iTunes: ‎Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast - Presented by TrainerRoad on Apple Podcasts
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(0:00) Welcome!
(2:53) Hannah’s recovery strategies for stage races
(5:28) Nutrition that helps you recover between races
(18:42) Is the pro peloton behind the curve with nutrition?
(23:23) What Hannah learned from racing the Mediterranean Epic
(33:17) New Triathlon plans including Masters Plans!
(37:15) Big Update:Red Light Green Light is in Early Access!
(56:24) Overreaching vs. Overtraining
(1:06:52) Avoiding fatigue with strength training
(1:20:14) Could collagen actually make you faster??



Nate’s comment about ADHD, overtraining, and dopamine weirdness.

Would enjoy a discussion of the current HS swimming philosophy of 2-3 months of 15 hour weeks, no rest weeks, and then 2 week taper. Son fell apart academically past few weeks (less than zero motivation on anything) and this pod just connected the dots for me with his swim team training. Ironically, when he is not overtrained he was MORE motivated (endorphins?) after coming home from swimming.


Does Hannah have a coach?

RLGL is a good thing. Will start with that as I’m guessing I’m viewed as one of the flamers. Seriously I RECOMMEND TR to people.

Listened to the RLGL segment of the podcast and providing my feedback:

  • should be no surprise that a lot of pros (with coaches) that TR looked at, well if the training didn’t have a lot of red, its highly likely it was by design because the athlete was working well with a good coach
  • in the past I’ve heard TR tell people to use low volume plan and add volume, and then didn’t provide a tool, and simultaneously AT was claiming to provide “the right workout every time” … TR you had some messaging problems and this is not flaming the true is that was setting athletes up for surprises. RLGL is a good thing.
  • “selling” against the PMC just reinforced my position that the PMC is not understood by TR (its not static), and in my mind the credibility of the entire conversation is called into question (like when I heard a prior podcast snippet selling against TSS and other stuff)
  • my plans dating back to 2016 have big weekend rides built into the plan, except when I did TR, and those plans made effective use of PMC along with other basic training concepts and tools

RLGL is a good thing.


It was mentioned in this week’s podcast on a 2 week on 1 week off master plan. That is the way I’ve trained for years as a master athlete who came up on Joe Friel’s books on master’s training. I usually only need about 14 days on and 5 days off, but I like that you plan to offer it and am looking forward to it.

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That’s a good connection to make. Agreed, our systems are all connected. As yoga uses conscious control of breath and activity to access and control the mind.

Last week a radio caller to Dr Karl on Triple J shared that he’s maintained two years of notes on how his wife’s workout routine has activated / amplified her sex drive, and the number of encounters she initiates with him after returning from a gym workout. So many good reasons to manage overtraining

Everybody enjoys getting a Green Light :heart_eyes:

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I haven’t yet watched this week’s episode yet but this training is common in XC and track as well (through both high school & college). Some coaches I know do incorporate “recovery weeks” but it is more of still doing workouts, just lowering intensity and maybe cutting an interval or two. But that kind of “full throttle” training is common place and when coupled with racing… lots of racing… it is no doubt that a lot for young athletes with not much training history get flat later in the season. My experience is that high school athletes thrive during summer when they are sleeping more and don’t have school stress. Add those big stressors and the training definitely starts to wear on you. A good training plan and race schedule can help but the coach has to be willing to make adjustments.

Interesting take on motivation. Do you think it is the training or is it all the other stuff adding stress that lowers motivation?

Just my N=1 for collagen supplementation. I started adding bovine collagen to my recovery shake (same one I’d been using for years) and my nails and hair* started growing in noticeably thicker, my natural part even changed. So it’s one of the few supplements I’ve ever really experienced a noticeable effect from. Not sure what this means for what it’s doing inside the body, but I’ve liked the effect enough that I’ve stayed on it for a few years now.

*re hair I mean the individual follicles were thicker and stronger, I doubt collagen will do anything for ‘thinning’ hair (as in going bald).

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We already struggled with ~50% motivation as his steady state, but with enough prodding we could stay on top of him (getting his school assignments in). His motivation issues were never with swim practice itself, only with schoolwork. I think he does pretty good with sleep - though we always wish for more. Yes, I’m convinced the (over)training is doing weird things to his cognitive function. When he’s not overtrained he actually is more (academically) motivated after practice. Season is almost over. Next year, we’ll force some breaks on him.

I hadn’t connected the dots to school until Nate’s little quip about his employees overtraining during the 3-day weekend and being unproductive come Monday.

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Yeah, I’ve noticed that recently there has been some negativity towards users by saying things that sound like “TR isn’t to blame, it’s people adding extra rides that are to blame”…but TR very frequently encouraged people to do LV plans and add extra rides, so speaking negatively about people doing what you encouraged them to do just rubs me wrong.

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I found the blame game, the looking at people’s training and sort of derisively laughing, or saying, well duh…, all of it, a bit off-putting. What’s strange to me is that ultimately the output of all the people saying they were burned out, all the feedback, it led to what I consider to be some excellent changes to the platform.

  1. The default plans were changed. (looking back they used to be much harder).
  2. The master’s plans
  3. Adaptive Training
  4. Power levels.
  5. Changes to language on plan builder onboarding
  6. Improvements to the calendar.
    and lastly, RLGL and PLV2.

I’m still annoyed with the narrative that this was somehow any of the User’s “Fault”. I also don’t think this was TR’s fault. The only fault is in denying people’s experiences instead of working to improve it. There of course is no obligation to improve your users’ understanding, no obligation to guide them with well designed interfaces. But a knowledgable user (podcast anyone?) and an elegant and intuitive interface will improve the engagement and retain your users longer. I guess I’d sum it up by paraphrasing something from my own expertise.

It doesn’t matter if your training plans are perfect if your users are unhappy.

Just my .02. And I’ve said it before but these changes are an excellent sign (to me) that there is a real attempt to address gaps and improve.


Amen. Sorry Nate, from where I sit bringing flamers into the convo is transferring blame and playing the victim. So what, you guys made mistakes. Do a podcast on it and apologize. FWIW I did your SSB1 HV plan in 2018 and frankly it was ill conceived. I’m not the only one that feels that way. I’m still hanging around and referring peeps.

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Yes, she’s specifically mentioned she does in other podcasts.

Not 100% - but may be coached by her husband?

It would be interesting to see RLGL applied to your 2018 training

@Nate_Pearson ; Regarding what you said on the pod about working on a feature to have RLGL notify you without even opening up the app. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, make this a setting that you can toggle on/off. I do NOT want TR sending me unwanted notifications or have to disable RLGL just to get rid of notifications.