AT: Easy vs Moderate vs Hard vs ... [Pass / Success Survey Responses]

@mcneese.chad thank you as well! Same!

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@philan @mcneese.chad They’ve changed it since you posted those screen shots. [Unless I’m missing something.]

Productive → Very Hard → Full PL upgrade to WO level, +0.9

Also very worth note: I had no struggle survey after this. You can see it’s just listed as ‘Very Hard’, instead of ‘Sleep’, ‘Nutrition’, etc.

I thought all VHs produced a struggle survey. Unsure why I didn’t get one here.

No, it’s not that simple. VH amy be appropriate and accepting for some higher Productive level workouts, and even more likely OK for Stretch and Breakthrough level workouts.

Changed what exactly. I still see no mention of Bailouts in the All Out rating definition in the TR support article.

@mcneese.chad sorry, I meant they had changed the VH = no PL advancement thing. I thought @philan had posted that he observed that, and a screenshot of it, but when he changed it to Hard, it awarded a PL advancement.

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I realize you’ve already updated the table, but as a suggestion, maybe:

This should have been a struggle, but I didn’t get the struggle survey

Whenever I’ve selected All Out, I’ve been given the struggle survey, but I don’t have enough experience doing it (sample set of 1) to know if that’s always the case or just been how mine were handled so far.

I don’t know the specifics about when TR serves a follow up Struggle survey to All Out ratings. I suspect it is the majority, if not all cases but I don’t know for certain. Additionally, it’s possible to receive the Struggle survey on Very Hard ratings, because I and others have had that.

So I am not sure if I have a clear edit to make with that Struggle survey in mind?

I should’ve quoted you properly. I was thinking of this:

I do find it funny though. Because there must be some trigger point with Bailouts where they trigger a Struggle survey by default vs using All Out which seems to give the same Struggle survey. My question is how fine or where is the line between a default Struggle survey vs TR still giving you the regular survey and an All Out leading to the Struggle as a follow up?

And in my mind this translated to a clear rule → it should have been a struggle, but wasn’t for some reason. Put differently, when finishing a workout and being surprised that I didn’t get the struggle survey, I would pick All Out.

Not sure if that’s just one more on top of what you’ve already captured perfectly well, though.

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OK, my older version might have covered this:

image

I removed that 5th line a somewhat recently, because I wasn’t sure it was helpful.

Today I was doing Bird +2. All was going well until my legs starting cramping about 11 intervals in. This was most likely due to DOMS from starting back into lifting yesterday. I only finished 12 of the 15 intervals so I answered all our/did not pass. Up until the cramps I was doing fine and hitting the power targets. I think I would have finished. For the survey as to why I failed what is the most appropriate, and does it actually matter. Or do they all change the upcoming workouts intensity the same due to the failure?

I would’ve answered “Training Fatigue” as it was your weight training that caused it. Whether that is right or wrong…who knows?

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I wish there was an option for temperature, today 85° with 100% humidity was horrendous. Literally felt like I was melting, went through almost 2 liters of sugar/ electrolyte mix in 90 minutes. I was well hydrated before but dang summer is here :melting_face:

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That’s how I answered it. I agree it felt the most appropriate, but was curious of others takes on it. Or if it even matters which one you select on the outcome for AT. Just that you selected All out/did not pass.

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Just another interesting and partly confusing data point. I did this workout tonight and struggled in the final 2 sets. Backpedal recoveries for large parts of the workout, but TR gave the normal survey upon completion.

I chose “5 - All Out” as I feel that is correct. Just surprised that TR didn’t give the Struggle survey by default here consider my clear use of bailouts. The workout level was set as 0.2 higher than my current PL, so a normal Productive difficulty level. Not sure there’s much takeaway here other than to keep any eye on the survey you get and choose accordingly even if you get the “wrong” survey by default.

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Clearly cronyism :wink:.

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In the past, I think I’ve said I think heat falls under “Intensity”, but after a few weekends of horrendous heat, I think I’m with you. These are rides I could have done easily indoors, or outdoors a month ago, but I suffered heavily because I was outside in high heat and humidity. I even tried starting at 5:30am and still suffered. The problem with marking it Intensity is that AT doesn’t know if my next ride will be indoors in the air conditioning, or outdoors in that heat.

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For sure, I marked that ride as “other” which is usually will give you minimal increase in workout intensity. It’s definitely summer, I’m with you I try to get out and back before 9-10 o’clock in the morning. Which means I have to leave at like 6-7 in the morning. The only times I finish later than 10am is when I do long endurance or group rides.

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Just completed Freel +4. A VO2 workout with a PL of 7.3 while I was currently sitting at 6.4. This was the first workout of a new block after a 6 watt FTP increase so I knew this might get interesting.

Result:

I got through the intervals but it took EVERYTHING I had to do so and once I finished the last one I had to stop the workout and collect myself for a minute or two before I continued the remaining zone 2 work. My legs were so cooked I had to decrease the intensity to 80% to finish the 45 minute (plus 4 minute cooldown) endurance block.

I answered the survey as “All out” with the reason as “Intensity”. Which I assume was the correct response based on my described experience.

Though to my surprise TR gave me the credit for the PL boost:

I don’t recall ever rating a workout as “All Out” before so I am not sure if this is expected behavior. To give myself some credit I did complete all the intervals at the prescribed percentage but I technically had to decrease the intensity to finish the workout with a pause included.

Is this expected behavior? Did I indeed answer the survey correctly?

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Deffo “all out”. Whether or not the PL change is correct, I don’t know. I would’ve thought it would’ve kept you where you were or given a smaller bump. Maybe thats part of WLV2 when it comes in :man_shrugging:

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@patricksudol I’d agree w you.

Given your performance, need to decrease diff % [aka not fully completing the WO] and your then telling them you went All Out to do it, PL should not have adjusted so much.

I would bet this was a minor glitch, and send it to support.

I mean, bottom line; you went All Out. We’re not supposed to be doing that regularly… do you want another WO at this intensity in your calendar next week??? :smiley: I’d def want my PL to be staying where it was, or moving up a tiny bit… not feeding back to the system that this is totally where I’m at, I can do this and call it Mod or Hard!!

But I’m still learning lots every week… see if anyone w deeper understanding chimes in!

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I wonder if the unexpected AT response is partly or wholly because you got through the intervals OK and only adjusted the power downwards once you got to the “while you’re on the bike, you might as well do some bonus Z2” section? :man_shrugging:t2:

ETA: Top job on the intervals :muscle:

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