AT: Easy vs Moderate vs Hard vs ... [Pass / Success Survey Responses]

From the description of Taylor:

Taylor is made up of 3x20-minute sets of 30-second VO2max repeats at 120% FTP where you’ll complete as many as 20 short intervals per set.

Based on that I’d adjust the chart to “could I do another set?” which is almost what is written for the Moderate definition. I take the definition of interval in Chad’s chart to be a longer effort rather than the 30/30 efforts of something like Taylor.

It depends… for reference and transparency, here is the info that TR gave us and I refined:

To the point, the “interval” aspect of the questions not a hard and fast consideration, nor is it appropriate for every use. There are simply enough variations from short/shorts to workouts that effectively are one massive interval.

IMO, when you hit those edges cases, you are better to disregard the “interval” aspect of the chart and look at the other three aspects to help with your decision.

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@mcneese.chad This is a great interpretation of the TR chart!

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Yesterday I did Palisade +2 and did most of it at 95%. I filled in the survey as All Out based on 100%. I did think about reporting Very Hard on the 95%. Look at some of those cadences. Not good. Did I report it correctly?

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I think so. If you weren’t able to do the workout at 100%, I’d mark it as all out also.

Yeah, all out seems right. You seem yo have struggled at the 95% reduction. Keep in mind that its a rating aboit what you DiID and how THAT felt. Adjustments can happen, so disregard 100% if you altered it up or down.

After reading Large jump in progression level (+1.7) between workouts I wondered if I had received a big jump for some reason.

I completed Warlow +1 the week before which I marked as Moderate. This was a 5.0. A week later I couldn’t do Palisade -2 which is a 5.6, not a big jump.

You can always check in with support@trainerroad.com to confirm, they have the most insight to your ride logs, PL changes, adaptations, and can help you work through the logic behind those changes.

Last week, I had a conundrum.
My kicker core finally broke down grinding after 3 years so I went it to wahoo for a replacement. Since I was changing to a dumb trainer in the meantime and switching to a tt bike for specificity for my race, I didn’t know how the feel would be with 2 changes to my regular training. I wanted to do polar bear but opted for PB-3 just to be on safe side. After a seat adjustment and extra fans, it became comfortable and after an hour I started increasing the intensity. I ended the workout 20% higher with threshold and vo2 for last 7 min or so. Any rate, it got very hard for the last 30 min. Once I was done, I didn’t know how to rate it. I made the workout very hard. But if I rated it very hard, Machine Chad would think inrated PB-3 as very hard. I ended up rating it easy. I can’t say I’m not bummed I didn’t get 10.0 PL for tempo that PB gives you even though I ended with exact numbers I would have if I had done PB.

How should I answer surveys?

Don’t overthink it. Consider the overall difficulty of the workout and not how you expected it to feel.

How do I Use Surveys?

If you’re doing an indoor workout with an internet connection, you’ll be served a survey in the app once the workout is completed. Just click or tap the appropriate response, select “Submit” and your survey response will be saved.

How to Rate your Effort

  1. Easy
    This workout felt easy and non-taxing, requiring little effort or focus. You could repeat the workout and pass it without issue.

  2. Moderate
    This workout was somewhat comfortable but required some focus to complete. You felt a little challenged but had confidence that you could finish. If the workout had an additional set of intervals, you could complete it.

  3. Hard
    This workout required effort and focus and was challenging to complete. This will feel tough and you’ll look forward to this workout ending. If there was an additional interval, you could have done it with some focus.

  4. Very Hard
    This workout was very difficult to complete. This workout tested you. If there would have been one more interval, you wouldn’t have been able to do it.

  5. All Out
    This workout was extremely difficult. It pushed me well beyond my abilities and took a massive amount of energy and focus to complete. You’ll feel like you barely made it to the end of this workout, and that you had to pull out every mental trick in the book to finish.

You just rate the workout as it felt to you, not compared to what you expected, if you had an endurance ride scheduled and you made it a threshold ride, so exceeding power, just rate the workout as you did it, AT will know, don’t overtink it!

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I’m confused here because I’m sure this was not the case previously; if I mark a workout as “very hard” it gives me the “fail survey” and I do not get any credit. If I mark it as “hard” I get the credit. Why is this the case? I thought “all out” would lead to the “fail survey”. The workouts I’ve noticed this on are sweet spot workouts. Maybe AI does not want me to think that they’re very hard?

Here’s an example of a workout that goes into fail survey if I mark it as very hard.

Correct. It’s my experience that AT expects SS to be either Moderate or Hard and anything outside of that will be handled more aggressively regarding your PLs.

Are you sure you don’t get credit? Here’s one from last week that I marked Very Hard and got the struggle survey:

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My compliance was fine, it was just hard. I still got PL credit:

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I would really appreciate a 1 to 10 rating with Easy being 2, moderate 4, hard 6, very hard 8 and All Out 10. I do so many workouts that are 3 or 5 and find it really difficult to call which way to go.

Yeah, I’m positive I do not get any credit if I switch to “very hard”.
I find this to be somewhat difficult. The difference between hard and very hard can be rather subtle, especially on very long intervals. I’d rather err on the side of caution and put down “very hard”, but if that messes up the progression…

  • Can you post a screen shot of your completed ride from the web?

  • If you completed a workout, and it’s Workout Level was above your Progression Level at that time of the workout, there should be an increase of your PL to match the WL.

  • The potential impact from the Very Hard rating would only affect your pending workouts and whether TR AT would keep them the same as previously scheduled, do a small increase or decrease. All that depends on the factors of the workout Difficulty that is the relative difference between your PL at the start and the WL.

It’s a bit of a black box - but it’s definitely not a simple rule that one response (“All Out”) always leads to a fail survey and another doesn’t - from what I can tell, AT has some expectation of how you are going to find a given workout.

As an extreme example: if my endurance PL is 6.0 and I mark Pettit (3.2) anything other than Easy (or possibly Moderate) it is going to think I had some kind of problem (and to be fair, it would be obviously right in that case), and I’ll get a fail survey. I noticed this very clearly when I did some PL 1.0 spins while I was at the tail end of COVID.

So could be that AT thinks this workout should have been Moderate or Hard for you, so if you mark it Very Hard then it thinks you had an issue.

However as Chad says I think it should still update your PL, it just may have an effect on the future adaptations.

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  • I guess that confuses me. There is a massive gulf between a 3 - Moderate and 5 - All Out from what I can tell.

  • Have you reviewed the official TR support article on Surveys?

      1. Hard - This workout required effort and focus and was challenging to complete. This will feel tough and you’ll look forward to this workout ending. If there was an additional interval, you could have done it with some focus.
      1. Very Hard - This workout was very difficult to complete. This workout tested you. If there would have been one more interval, you wouldn’t have been able to do it.
      1. All Out - This workout was extremely difficult. It pushed me well beyond my abilities and took a massive amount of energy and focus to complete. You’ll feel like you barely made it to the end of this workout, and that you had to pull out every mental trick in the book to finish.
  • And based upon lengthy discussion with TR, I made my own, more expanded version that works well for me and others, in helping find an appropriate choice upon workout completion.

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Sorry not making myself clear Chad. Those are 3 and 5 on a 10 scale. I often fall between Easy and Moderate (my 3) also between Moderate and Hard (my 5).

So here’s a screen snip from when I’ve got it marked as “very hard” and then “training fatiuge”
No movement on the PL


Here’s a screen snip from when I’ve got it marked as “hard”, and as you can see the PL increased.

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