AT: Easy vs Moderate vs Hard vs ... [Pass / Success Survey Responses]

Yeah, I never would have guessed that I was supposed to be comparing to how the workout was “supposed” to be, which is also kind of a hard thing to know. My own RPE is much more straightforward and easier to judge.

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This has been a big reason I have actually recently stopped using AT. I’ve been so frustrated with trying to figure it out that I feel my actual training has suffered. Going back to just using the set plans I feel a lot better so far. Maybe when they fix all the problems for the main release I’ll come back.

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Even if I rely on my own RPE, that’s a very imprecise measure. Consider a 2 min VO2Max, 2 min recover repeated 10 times. 2 min at VO2Max certainly qualifies as a hard effort, but with plenty of recovery and only 10 repetitions, I’m still feeling pretty fresh after the workout. So should the workout be easy/moderate because it was easy to finish and I feel fine afterwards, or should it be hard because the 20 min of VO2Max were right at the edge of what I could do for 2 min at a time?

How about a ramp test? By definition, I’m going til I can’t go any more, but 5 minutes after I finish the ramp, I’m feeling fresh and can take an easy/moderate ride with no difficulty. How do I rate that workout?

  • That workout / Test / Fitness Assessment is an exception, where there is no completion survey offered of any kind AFAIK. (I’m guessing the 1x20m and 2x8m tests would be similar, without a survey?)

  • I presume that by definition, it is a maximal effort which precludes the need for a survey. If you fall short for any reason, you can retest or manually adjust FTP.

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I would revise how you do the vo2 max in this case :slight_smile:

Update! We’ve added more information on surveys to the ‘How to Use Adaptive Training’ article, I’ll post it here as well!

How to Rate Your Effort

  1. Easy
    This workout felt easy and required little effort or focus and felt non-taxing.
    (For context, this should feel like a little bit more than a recovery ride, ie you could do this again now and could pass it with no problem.)
  2. Moderate
    This workout was somewhat comfortable but required some focus to complete.
    (This was a normal feeling workout where you’ll feel challenged a bit, but not as though you wouldn’t be able to finish it. I could do another set of intervals or extend the ride.)
  3. Hard
    This workout required effort and focus and was challenging to complete.
    (This will feel tough and you’ll probably look forward to this workout ending, but if there was another interval, I could have done it.)
  4. Very Hard
    This workout was very difficult to complete.
    (ie if there would have been one more interval, you wouldn’t have been able to do it.)
  5. All Out
    This workout was extremely difficult. It pushed me well beyond my abilities and took a massive amount of energy and focus to complete.
    (You’ll feel like you barely made it to the end of this workout, and that you had to pull out every trick in the book mentally to finish it.)

Its important to separate your expectation of what the workout will feel like (either from the Workout Level or from your Progression Levels) from what you actually experienced through doing the workout. Try to speak exclusively to how the workout felt, regardless of that context of expectation.

Let us know if you have more questions!

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Thanks Ivy, just one thing - those bits in parentheses are quite helpful, but they’re not present in the page you linked to. It would be worth including them :slight_smile:

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These seem to align well with my prior comments. I may have to consider the relationship between Moderate and Hard, in light of the supplemental comments on the possibility of more intervals or ride extension. But this still makes sense on a broad level to me.

I thinned the text down a bit for quick reference, as well as standardizing the “I vs You” approach too.

I also “struck out” the prior comments in my doc that were shared by TR support on an individual level, and consider that all to be null and void at this time.

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Thanks

How would AT distinguish between a workout that is Hard or Very Hard because you are potentially reaching your current PL limits and the scenario where you are fatigued from external factors?

For example, when i have done a week of training and added an extra day for a fast outdoor group ride to my MV plan, the Achievable Sunday SS workout can feel a lot harder than it should. Once i have a rest day on Monday then i am back on song again. An honest survey response of Hard might trigger an unintended change to ramp rate of SS workouts, where in reality that is not the problem.

Cool! We weren’t sure if that extra context was totally necessary for the article, good to know! Thanks for the feedback.

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Speaking as an info hungry type-A person (like so many on here)… I think it’s safe to say that “more is always better” when it comes to info :stuck_out_tongue:

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Thanks. I was just thinking it’s more likely I’ll use that page as a reference rather than finding this forum post again. But I’ve since decided to print it out and keep it on my training desk!

I think those guidelines basically align with that I’ve been doing anyway, but it’s nice to have a handy reference to help keep my responses consistent.

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Which leads to my next suggestion (feature request), that some form of these notes find their way directly into the survey response itself.

I have more than a few “cheat sheets” of info like this, but nothing beats having it directly shown (or indirectly accessible via things like tool tips) right on the actual survey where we could benefit from that info.

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thanks @IvyAudrain and the TR team.

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The extra comments are very helpful…Thanks

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Super individualized based upon that full scope of your prior training and Progression Levels, the plan you’re on along with timeline of events, the ‘Achievable Sunday SS workout’ you add beforehand, and the workouts that follow.

Please put the parenthetical stuff into another column!

Requested this to the team!!! Help I’m just the messenger HELP. :rofl:

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You are the consummate diplomat, always shuttling forum feedback to the team. Big thank you!

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First let me preface by saying so far I’ve had no issues with the survey options or AT.

but…

How about simplifying response options: 1) Too Easy 2) About Right 3) Too Hard