Thank you, @GPLama !
BTW was the 2T affected by the “accuracy at high fly wheels isssue”? I am always using the 20-25 km/h range and have no additional power meter, so I couldn’t tell. I know you did some elaborate testing with the Neo 2…
Thanks for following up on the firmware update @GPLama! Honestly the ghosting issue was a non-issue for me since I use TR 98% of the time and FulGaz/Rouvy/Zwift for the other. Using TR and this trainer has been very positive with good results after a few months, still quiet and efficient and no slippage either that few have experienced.
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This is just a small sample, but I personally know 4 different people from different parts of the US who have had enough trouble with the new KICKR in the last few months that they have returned them for replacements and sold the replacement new in box.
It seems like the 2T is over it’s teething issues and reliable now.
Again, a small sample, but very significant in my small circle.
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The Neo 2T has been working great for me on mostly TrainerRoad and some Zwift over the last month. It tracks very closely with my SRM on the bike. In erg mode, I’d agree that it’s quick and smooth but not aggressive. The Neo 2T is more forgiving than my Kickr V1 when a phone call or something interrupts an interval – it ramps back up to power smoothly instead of acting like a brick wall like the Kickr did.
I thought the issues with the 2018 kickr had been solved for the most part?
Not in my circle
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We still see Clickr’s happening in the Wahoo FB group. It may be better, and even possible that the continued bad ones are left-overs, but repeat units for some people getting them direct from Wahoo seems to indicate it is still happening for some people.
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TacxFaqx did some testing and compared NEO 1, 2 and 2T with regards to their linearity, i.e. accuracy of power in erg mode vs flywheel speed (gearing+cadence choice). Almost any trainer out there exhibits different levels of accuracy for different speeds. According to TacxFaqx, Tacx already adressed this for the 2T with the 0.0.31 firmware update (0.0.34 only fixed the phantom watts issue of the 2T).
Here is the link, the 2T is performing pretty darn good:
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It’s an interesting analysis, but it has two flaws.
First, all 3 trainers apparently hit the resistance floor on the longest gears, and can no longer meet the pedal-measured power target. That’s not a linearity issue, it’s a trainer limitation, in a situation that most users would rarely get into (100W on 50/12 at 90 rpm, for example).
Second, the power level used (100W) is not near the average power used for most trainer usage. A similar test at 200W would probably yield more useful data, and also indicate if linearity changes with the overall power level.
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I’d have to look to find the data to confirm, but I think Shane and/or Tariq have shown similar issues, at higher wattage levels. Without checking, my recollection may be off, but this seems to be further reaching than the 100w value.
I assume if there is non-linearity, it will show across the power range. The magnitude may vary however; hence my comment. And the resistance floor mixes two different issues into one bag; one is the precision of the power measurement, the other is the ability to meet the power demand under some conditions.
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A comparison of P2M (cyan line) and Neo2T (purple line) on this evening’s ramp test. Neo being controlled from TR with powermatch. Purple line is the reported number to zwift from the Neo. This seems much worse than usual to me… so Im not entirely sure what’s gone on here. Neo2T is on the latest firmware.
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What was your choice of gears? What are both averages for the step around 100 W?
Small ring mid block up to the shift you can see. From there it would have been big ring but slightly further up the block.
I was seeing approx 10w difference at the 100w level. Just from eyeballing. It appears to have been roughly 10% across the range.
For my eyeballs it’s more like 5 Watts. What was your cadence? Why did you shift?
Soon. I have an ongoing dialogue with Tacx on this one.
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I haven’t graphed it out but i see EXACTLY the same behavior between my Vector 3’s (yes I calibrate them and yes my weight it is in the TACX app) and my Neo gen1. I mean exactly.
Low power around 135 watts pedals and neo are within a few watts. Def ~1%. As power rises and/or I am in a bigger gear, the powers diverge exactly like your graph. On a VO2max interval tonight there was a disparity in avg powers between the two for 90sec of 45watts.
Typically I ride in a 36-28 and in minimizes the disparity. But and higher power the delta is definitely there still.
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This would suggest that this is not a 2T specific issue. Since only 2-3% is accepted as drive-train loss and the NEO OG is otherwise considered as rock-solid, there must be something different at play here.
Does it look exactly the same when controlling the NEO directly and only recording the Vectors (so without the powermatch @brenph was using)?
jawohl.
The interval in question actually was in resistance mode. 345W avg on the TACX 392avg on zwift from my Vectors. I was switching back and forth between erg and resistance between sets.
I’ve tried every combination of Neo settings and the power progression, and diverging power is the same.