I see bigger FTP gains in SS base than I do in build for both my years on trainerroad.
I try to swap out the Sunday ride for a long endurance ride instead so maybe I’m doing a mix of both.
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Hello guys, I read this topic and I see that there are a lot of people who understand the subject, I do structured training two years ago, and I cycling at four years a go , in this time of structured training I always used power meter, so now I’m without a coach and I’m trying train alone.
At the moment I am at a training peak and I have 2 races in November, I would start this training on December 1st 2019.
which would give me about 32 weeks until the race.
Finally I have a 200km gravel race at the end of July 2020, I saw some people doing TB + SSB and then going back to TB + SSB to SPB + CENTURY.
I built two options, someone could give a light or feel free to mount too.
First Option:
TRADITIONAL BASE 3 – HIGH VOLUME – 4 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 1 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 2 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SUSTAINED POWER BUILD - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
FINAL
CENTURY - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
Second Option:
SWEET SPOT BASE 1 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SUSTAINED POWER BUILD - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 2 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SUSTAINED POWER BUILD - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
FINAL
CENTURY - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
Thanks
I think you’re better off doing more base instead of more build - so your first option is more appealing to me
I wouldn’t necessarily recommend TBHV3 to start though - think you’d be better off with 1 or 2 since TB3 is pretty similar to SSBHV1 and SSBHV2
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Thanks for the help, it’s always good to hear opinions, based on what you said, but I still have the doubt, there are people who do TB + SSB then back to TB + SSB and then go to SPB + CENTURY.
I reorganized it as follows.
OPTION 1 :
TRADITIONAL BASE 1 – HIGH VOLUME – 4 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 1 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
TRADITIONAL BASE 2 – HIGH VOLUME – 4 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 2 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SUSTAINED POWER BUILD - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
CENTURY - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
OPTION 2 :
TRADITIONAL BASE 1 – HIGH VOLUME – 4 WEEKS
TRADITIONAL BASE 2 – HIGH VOLUME – 4 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 1 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 2 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SUSTAINED POWER BUILD - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
CENTURY - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
going back and forth between TB and SSB is better than following TB + TB2 + SSB1 + SSB2 ?
option 1 makes no sense to my eyes.
This is recommended by TrainerRoad in this support article https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/360025556952-Too-Much-Time-
under the section:
(8-12 Weeks) Double Up on Base
2 Likes
I would go with option 2, reason being that training is supposed to be progressive and with option 1 you’re going to have a weird drop at the beginning with that SSB > TB transition. It’s not rocket science, we just like to make it seem as such! Option 2 is basically: Volume > Intensity > Specificity. 
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Thanks friends , I have one last race on November 25th, and I think about starting December 1st -2019 with TB1.
5 days off will help me get started, my main race next year is July 25th 2020, if I count from December 01st 2019 until there are 34 weeks, then I will have to cut two weeks TB-1 I think, but as I am well trained I think it will not be a problem.
OPTION 2 : 36 WEEKS TOTALLY
TRADITIONAL BASE 1 – HIGH VOLUME – 4 WEEKS
TRADITIONAL BASE 2 – HIGH VOLUME – 4 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 1 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SWEET SPOT BASE 2 - HIGH VOLUME – 6 WEEKS
SUSTAINED POWER BUILD - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
CENTURY - HIGH VOLUME – 8 WEEKS
2 Likes
Don’t know your training history but I think you’re likely going to dig yourself a pretty deep hole if you’re planning a peak five days before you start a 34 week training cycle for your next A race.
I’d strongly recommend you drop an entire block and give yourself a nice 2-3 week downtime post peak
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I understand, I think you’re right, I did some math last week, in the last two years I’ve done an average of 11/12 hours of training weekly.
I’m sending down the tss bar of the two years I’m training.
but to fit the race correctly, I can only make one of the TB 1/2/3.
because with the weeks I will not be able to close the planned.
I personally don’t like doing build type workouts so far out of a competition since a lot of that work will then go away after doing SSB. Those quick burst workouts typically have quick fitness gains, that also tend to fade quickly as well. But I am a bit outside of what is recommended here, as many of the TR staff will recommend a base>build>base>build if you have enough time. Maybe sustained power build? I will be doing a VO2 focused block in January/Feb, but those will be 5-8 min repeats at 105% on shorter rest intervals, then doing SSB2>General Build.
6 weeks seems to be the typical length where a specific stimulus gives the most gains. I believe that is 6 weeks of work though, so if you do 2 x (3hard + 1 ez) that should work as well if I am understanding correctly. There is no magic training intensity, or periodization strategy, as long as the stimulus is changed once the body adapts. This is probably why people don’t see much improvements in specialty phase, even coach Chad has agreed with a post where I said the specialty phase is as much about mental training for the demands of the race as anything, possibly getting 1 extra repeat by finding your limits.
For everyone who is doing or has done the TB → SSB would you be interested in sharing your experience or progress as you go through the plans?
Maybe we could start a separate thread if there are enough people in the same boat.
I’m wrapping up TB1MV and plan to go through TB2 and TB3 both MV before heading into SSB at the start of 2020.
So far TB1 has been a nice easy transition from the season so I feel like I’ve gotten a break from intensity. I have done one long (3-4 hours) outdoor in a few of the weeks. Also I don’t mi d long indoor rides so the 2-3 rides coming in TB2 and TB3, I’m not dreading.
For reference I peaked out FTP around 260/265 this summer. I did a 20 min FTp test at the start of TB and got 250. Will retest this Saturday.
We need to put a disclaimer on it. It’s really for a very small portion of people who really hate themselves. We almost always recommend sweet spot base for everyone.
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torture | ˈtôrCHər |
noun
Using indoor trainer for long slow distance base training.
6 Likes
Here is a different take from the bleachers. I’d started out doing SS/SPB for two seasons. A year ago last August I suffered a concussion (not on the bike, but doing stupid old person’s s— while my mind that thought it inhabited a young person’s body). I had no choice but to do TB because I wasn’t allowed to let too much blood rushing to the head. I did 2 HVTPs in a row (balance was a issue). Boring thou sayest, Nate? For me, not so much. Being an ex-gym rat, I found plenty of hoops and futbol to watch on the tube to pass the time.
After the TB plans, I was pronounced healed and did LVSPB plus some outdoor rides. What I found was that its threshold & VO2Max intervals were now easier (i.e., I didn’t collapse). This winter, I will do MVSS but probably sub out one long weekend ride or work commute for a TR workout.
So here is a suggestion. I’d like TR to create a space called “Newbie’s Corner” for those of us who’ve been riding a long time (or not) but are brand new to the science of cycling. I’m too old and too busy to race, but I still strive to improve; my seasons consists of charity endurance rides and a couple of steep Gran Fondos. Along the way, I’ve picked up a lot of nuggets of wisdom just by sifting through the podcasts and reading the blogs. However, I also realize that my cohort is on the small side relative rest of your riders, and sometimes the technical give-and-takes (brawls among the righteous?) on some topics fly past me and my eyes start to bleed.
Chad, could you write a simple 1-2-3 piece for newbies. For example, when I first started out with SS, I reached a plateau. Then the concussion hit and I did TB, and and I saw improvement doing SPB. But this is only a single data point. Subsequently, in a podcast last summer, one of you mentioned that to improve one just needs to increase volume, too. D’oh! This piece of wisdom would have been useful at the onset. So what would be useful for me would be for Chad to sketch out a 2-5 year plan for a newbie. What to expect in year 1, year 2, etc., and when to vary a training regimen, etc. Collectively you folks have the knowledge, I would just like to see it under one roof.
Keep up the great work guys! Right now, I try to average 200-400 TSS a week that is still interrupted with work and family. Can’t wait to retire! Woo-hoo!
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So this tells me I need to do TBHV.
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Actually, I am pretty sure you’re missing context here, since what @chad is saying is that when people did traditional base, the biggest gains in the cycle were during the build phase. With people doing SSB, though, it’s the base phase that brings the biggest gains. Take that with all the disclaimers about SSB gains coming easier to athletes new to structured training, etc. etc.
4 Likes
You have a point there, thanks for your input!
1 Like
So who do you actually recommend traditional base for?
I’ve heard similar remarks about high volume plans, which begs the question, when do you recommend them?