Am I being unrealistic

The goal for 2020, 4 w/kg sub 8 hour Fred Whitton

Currently 96kg, 248 ftp ramp test, 282 8 min test (currently doing chads Vo2 workouts at 248 to try and improve this capability)

Training / riding. Tr low volume
Monday TR workout
Tuesday group ride (everyone is better than me so won’t be a limiter as I get better) TSS 150-185
Wednesday Gym
Thursday Gym
Friday TR workout (1.5 hour)
Saturday Rest
Sunday MTB Group ride (currently slowest in the group so again, not a limiter) hrTSS 140-175
Weekly TSS between 450-500

If I don’t do one of the group rides then I do the third TR workout for the week instead.

Diet
As for losing the weight diet is generally good other than an unhealthy relationship with chocolate and lucozade. Plan to curb this and follow the 5/2 diet. Riding days will not be either of the calorie restricted days.

So I guess my question is are my goals unrealistic for the time I can put in? I think I can get to 85Kgs fairly easily with some discipline so I would need an FTP of 340 which seems a lofty number.

Any thoughts on my plan are really appreciated both positive and negative!

What’s your recent race/event history?

What’s your training background?

What’s you bodyfat %?

Fred Whitton isn’t something I’d set a target time for, more something I’d hope to survive! :rofl:
https://www.fredwhittonchallenge.co.uk/the-route/

Dont really do races, just want to get faster. Did a charity ride back in 2014 120 miler and I did the Fred Whitton course as a training ride in 10 hours, including lunch stops in cafes (live near the route so its easy to do the climbs). Velo Birmingham in 2016 in 6.5 hours.

Training background is got a power meter in December 2017 FTP of 161, started TR Easter 18 FTP 200 and now somewhere between 250 and 280 ish depending on which test.

Body fat according to scales is 26% so some low hanging fruit there.

Thanks for your time

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I think your previous structured training history would be pretty important. If you’re relatively new to training using TR your improvement is going to be much steeper than if you’ve been following structured training for a few years. I think your age would also be an extremely important factor as well.

The event is about 1.5 yrs out, so barring any injuries it could be a pretty aggressive goal, but not impossible following a plan and training with consistency.

A flag on your outdoor rides - you note that you’re one of the slower riders in both and that therefore these wouldn’t be a limiter. However, please take into consideration that if you’re always trying to kill yourself to keep up with the group you’re going to fatiguing yourself much more quickly than you think and that would be a limiter.

I would say that only two structured TR workouts a week feels really light, and it looks like you’re going to go from a Sunday ride with a group more advanced than you to a TR workout on the Monday. I would bet you’re going to need your Monday workout to be a recovery workout. In my mind, you’re only really doing one high quality TR workout a week. This is what makes me doubtful of you achieving your 4 w/kg goal.

What I would suggest is to have one outdoor ride a week and alternate between road and mtn bike. Add in a TR workout to replace the dropped group ride.

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Again thanks for the time you have taken over your reply.

Previous to Dec 2017 there was nothing structured just occasional rides, I’ve only really had any sort of plan since Easter with TR.
Im 34
Even after a tough ride on a Sunday I’ve always been able to follow it up with the standard Low Volume first of the week ride with no difficulty at all and cant think of a time when it hasn’t been like that since starting in Easter. Just done Pierce -1 after yesterdays ride and it felt fine.

The Tuesday outdoor ride has multiple groups of different speeds. I go middle group, at the start these were 200 TSS rides than trashed me for a few days, since raising FTP they are now more manageable.

I could do another TR ride Wednesday morning but that would be 4 days on the bounce so never thought that would be a good option?

Does that info change anything?

Fred Whitton 2020 is a long way away.
I’d suggest setting some small goals for this year.

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While there are many much more experienced than me, I can’t possibly see how carrying a relatively heavy training load, with 1 off day, virtually not eating anything 2 days a week, trying to get faster, and lose weight all at the same time can possibly be effective.

If it were ME, I would either chose between dropping any weight first and then trying to get faster, or train to get faster while eating more healthy and watching calories, and accept that 1/2-1lb a week is about the most you will realistically lose while training without making yourself miserable, assuming you get through the trainiing at all.

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Well for me, you’ve got time on your side and you’re motivated - that’s fundamental. Without those you’re on shaky ground.

So I would think about two things, separately;

  1. Healthier eating
    Either take time out of training and diet hard, or (as I’m doing) eat more and eat healthier to fuel your training and give nutrition to the body. It’s much slower but (hopefully) more effective and long lasting.

  2. Consistent training
    What motivates you to train? If those outdoor rides are fun and you look forward to them hell or high water, keep them in. Use TR to boost fitness as you have with a low vol plan.

If not, and you’re motivated by performance, maybe take a mid volume plan and add in sporadic outdoor rides as you please.

Training six days a week for the next 18 months (?) is going to take some effort and willpower. Think of ways that will make training happen.

I’m no pro, these are just my thoughts - I think you can do it, good luck!

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Healthier eating
Either take time out of training and diet hard, or (as I’m doing) eat more and eat healthier to fuel your training and give nutrition to the body. It’s much slower but (hopefully) more effective and long lasting.

Very much this. Focus on completing your training and eating high quality food, don’t try to also run a calorie deficit. The weight will be what it is, but given the body fat % I’d guess that if you stick to your training and eat well, it’ll come down just fine. Either way though, if you try to train while also not eating enough you’re in for a real slog. Train, eat good food, and eat enough, and your body will adjust on its own.

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As @earena said and others alluded to when you look at it, calorie restricting and doing the training to raise FTP don’t really go together.
Great to get other views on things. Going to reduce my intake of crap and see what happens with the weight.
Thanks all

Happily with the Fred there is a lot you can do to improve your time without actually improving your physical performance / power to weight.
Obviously the climbs are hard and the better your power to weight is the quicker you will go up them. They are not though simple climbs with even gradients - they are very steep at points, winding and with very variable gradients, and on less than ideal surfaces. You can improve how you perform on them by practising (a lot) on similar climbs. Lots of hill repeats will really pay dividends - work on the trainer never really acts as a perfect substitute.
Also, lots of people lose a lot of time on the descents. They are not exactly pleasant, so if you can go out and practice them (as in the specific descents) you will massively improve your time.
The major thing you can’t control is the weather. If you have a good day then you will fly. Bad weather though could very easily add an hour onto your time, especially as the descents become treacherous.

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