I really like TR so I wanted to highlight whether this is a bug or not.
I’ve done a few outdoor workouts recently. My closest outdoor riding spot for intervals is about 25 minutes away, so I ride out to the spot at a Z1/Z2 pace. I’ll then do the 1-1.5 hour workout and then ride home. I understand inherently I am generating more fatigue/TSS by doing this but its basically my only option to do an outdoor workout and when its nice out I want to ride outdoors. I routinely am getting my AIFTP detection reduced after outdoor workouts/races/group rides. I can understand that racing is going to disrupt training and that will interrupt your ability to complete workouts which will allow you to imrprove. I can also understand that logic with group rides. Usually, they just end up generating more fatigue than expected because people go harder than they intend to or the ride ends up going long. I don’t want to feel like I am being disincentivized for going out and enjoying riding with my friends.
I will look at the Power section for each interval and will see that Power is in range for what I was expected to achieve during each interval, but the NP Power is not. Is there a reason that AIFTP is so sensitive to doing this?
I tested this out a little by changing whether a race and/or group ride was included in my plan and naturally the AIFTP detection shifted by as many as 1-2% by doing that, meaning I either observed no improvement within the AIFTP detection window or a small improvement. There was even a scenario in which my AIFTP detection brought my FTP down by up to 2 watts even though I am feeling stronger.
Among my hypotheses are the following:
Extra fatigue/high TSS values are impacting the amount of work the AI thinks you can handle, which in turn reduces the number of high-impact workouts from your schedule. This results in a lower FTP detection;
Workout intervals are only “successful” if Normalized Power is within a small variation of the target [range]. Inside there is no opportunity to stop pedaling/coast/have to take a corner, so your Power = NP for a given interval. Outside that isn’t true. Because your NP is not congruent than Power for each given interval are different, then it marks you down or something of that sort.
I’m open to being wrong on these hypotheses. I have a feeling the actual reason behind this is slightly more complex than this. I’m just noting it certainly makes it to feel like I’m making progress with my training while also enjoying the thing about riding that is fun: being outside and riding with people. Am I missing something? I certainly would love to see some explanation for how the AI compensates for that or how those motivations can be balanced with TR’s AI’s desire for high compliance with the program. Thanks!
Curious what you long term and 6wk TSS is typically? That it would freak out about TSS if you do this normally.
I would assume from all my reading here, personal experience, and podcasts that it is the first bullet. It really can not comprehend or allow for people to have Easy TSS or Recovery TSS. I have no idea how it tracks this or limits this… is it a 2 or 4yr look back of avg TSS is it JUST the 6wk avg that they often talk about in Podcasts? Sure seems to be a short window… Sure doesn’t seem to look at past strong training blocks for TSS/time-in-zone/FTP gains…etc? Unfortunately with AI, kind of seems like its a ‘yep, it looks back at history… but not sure, its a computer’ lol
I will say that the fatigue detection has been fairly on point - at least for me - do I don’t deny that it works in some way. That being said it’s hard to comprehend the rationale. Outside of an indoor workout on a trainer or rollers it’s quite hard to not generate extra TSS. When my training load was quite high over the summer and into the fall, check volume was bumping all my workouts up from 1hr to 1.5 hours but I was also using an Aggressive Training Style. I’m going to make what I think is a reasoned assumption that the AI is shooting for the most efficient training by shooting for the highest stimulus with the least amount of fatigue. Especially if most of your races are around an hour in length that makes sense. I just want to feel like I’m not taking away from my training if I go on a longer ride at least once over the weekend or do some of my training outdoors at my designated training area.
My TR account profile is the same as my username since I am having a hard time bringing up my TR account right now.
I am also trying to integrate outdoor rides in with the TR work outs and find it very difficult. I have to pin the work outs for the week ahead before loading out door rides or it will change them all to endurance/recovery. I did a hard club run at the week end and it reduced my Ai FTP prediction that was to be realised in 11 days by 20w and turned it into a -0.4 negative for the month after following the training schedule. The week I am now in has been cancelled due to risk of failure.
If you don’t want to know that those things might be making you slower, then either don’t look or reassess whether you really want to get faster? Accept a slower rate of progress as good enough?
I think you’re in the right direction with your thinking here for the most part, but you’re also right about things being complicated..
If we’re prescribing a workout that’s 60 minutes long, but then you go and ride for almost twice that long, we may think it’s best to adjust future workouts because of that.
It could be worth moving some things around to try doing easier rides as Outside Workouts rather than harder ones, as those are typically better suited to extending the duration. Just be sure to follow the structure of the workout.
Group/Solo rides are great and an important part of enjoying riding your bike, but as @JoeX said, they aren’t necessarily the best way to get faster. How you decide to move forward definitely depends on your priorities. If your #1 goal is to get faster, I’d recommend building a plan that is productive and works with your schedule, and following it as closely as possible.
If, however, getting faster is important, but not #1, then don’t be afraid to spend some of your time riding for fun. You’ve got to enjoy the process at the end of the day.
If your FTP is consistently declining over weeks and months, we could certainly take a look to see if there’s a way to change things up and get the best of both worlds, but small dips throughout the year aren’t the worst thing if you’re enjoying your time on your bike.
