Yep, very annoying.
I have been on HV for the last 24months. I have struggled with it at all. 3 weeks out from my A event I had to cut some of the rides short due to family commitments. Now it has bumped all my workouts down to shorter durations. I accepted the adaptions without realising it was cutting my long rides. It feels like it has derailed my momentum.
I will be turning adaptive training off from now on.
I don’t think this is a result of the adaptations. Did you update the plan by chance? I’ve noticed on HV Specially that most of the workouts are shorter duration now. TR must have updated the plans. I’ve had to add extra endurance or pick longer Alternates in Specialty to make up for it.
I made an adjustment to the plan in March to shift the date of the A event. So it may well have been a chance occurrence that the specialty phase all got made shorter with TR updates. I did check the specialty phase in the app and it still had long rides though.
For reference I’m used to doing 10hrs/week on HV and this week it has scheduled 5hrs, Last week was 7hrs. It was very quick to bump it down, which isn’t ideal. My event is 6hrs.
It would be nice to see what was scheduled originally vs what adaptive training is now suggesting.
Same here, with one exception: I might move my Tuesday workout to Wednesday in my head but not actually shift it in the Calendar until I go to start the workout on Wednesday. In this situation, it thinks I skipped the Tuesday workout and wants to adjust. I ignore the suggested changes, load up Tuesday’s workout and do it. Next time I start the app, it usually is no longer suggesting any change.
This is about the only situation where I try to do the AI’s thinking on its behalf, and that’s because the logic is fairly predictable. I wouldn’t want a platform where I’m constantly arguing with my “coach.” If the product requires that much over-ride, it’s time for a different product.
As I read this, I think the real solution is not changing how adaptations work, but allowing users to select more variables in setting a plan. I could imagine two ways to make a plan; the current way and an ‘advanced way’.
The ideal solution is not to have to choose which adaptations to use or not, but to not have to swap workouts. If you could make your plan using the ‘advanced way’ and tell the app you have 3+ hours to train on Sundays, it would likely (hopefully) select an endurance ride for you.
That’s what @AlphaDogCycling was saying above
I actually thought this was coming much sooner than it has. I was pretty disappointed to find out they were working on a bunch of other things that I feel have far less impact on the quality of my training plan.
Ahh yes, that was the only post I didn’t read in this thread
In theory yes, but in reality I won’t know what I have time for until that Sunday.
What’s the weather like? What kind of mood are my kids and my wife in? Is my bike on the trainer already or is it ready to ride outdoors. How do my legs feel? etc.
I typically balance life with training and might replace a workout or rearrange the order of workouts based on what fits with reality. These changes almost always comply with the spirit of the plan on a weekly basis, but maybe not on a daily basis.
if you choose to skip a workout because of life, can’t you just delete it so that it doesn’t affect your adaptations?
Deleting or skipping will both trigger an adaptation, since the intended work was not done (ie. no training load/benefit added). As such, AT will usually downgrade the next workout in that training zone, often a repeat of the skipped/deleted one.
Linking or weighting certain PLs to one another might also alleviate the adaptation issue for me. In the same two weeks that my Threshold PL went up, my Sweet Spot PL went down by .8 because I hadn’t done a sweet spot workout.
From a training and physiology standpoint, does that really make sense? It’s an honest question, I don’t know. I can guess that if my threshold PL is increasing, even though I’ve replaced some Sweet Spot with longer endurance, I’m still capable of doing the originally planned sweet spot.
This is one of the reasons I pay for TrainerRoad (and why I started, way before AT). Why am I paying, if not to take advantage of the expertise, and machine and human learning?
fwiw I do skip workouts, miss days. I just accept adaptations and move on with my life. Why would it not adapt if I’d miss a workout? I’d hope it would!
I want the same; in addition to that, I’m also paying to get the most productive training I can.
It seems like the machine is telling me I can’t do a harder sweet spot workout because I haven’t done a sweet spot workout in a while. Meanwhile I’ve been increasing my threshold PL.
I don’t trust the machine in this case. I don’t think “you haven’t done one in a while” is a good reason to decrease my Sweet Spot PL.
In the case of Sweet Spot and Threshold, I think there should be a Sweet Spot PL floor based on your Threshold PL. Maybe there is now, I’m not sure. If I had the data, I would take a look at the relation of those two PLs amongst users who regularly complete both types of workouts.
To answer your question of “when”:
When I fail a workout, or when I complete a meaningfully lower PL workout but rate it as Hard or more.
I guess overall I feel like the time decay on Sweet Spot, Tempo, and Endurance is based more on “have I done one lately” than reality, assuming I am actively training. As a result, the adaptations for these annoy me rather than help me train efficiently or be a faster cyclist.
edit: @QuittingBikes … not trying to whine. Trying to understand if I am a special flower, and if not, propose a way to make the software better for a meaningful group of people. I don’t want to turn AT off because a lot of what it does is GREAT.
I just checked out your account to see what might have been going on. I can’t see your entire adaptation history, but from what I can see, the workouts in the two weeks leading into your A event look as we would expect them to.
Those workouts will be cut down to shorter durations so you can taper appropriately into your A race. Volume should decrease while intensity remains high so you can get some extra freshness in your legs while keeping your fitness sharp heading into your goal race!
At this point in your plan, rest and recovery will be more important than long rides – that fitness should already be in the bank by now.
Keep that in mind as you taper things down and good luck with your race coming up!
Have we ever gotten an answer as to why AT constantly does this and if they are working to fix it?
Rather than annoyance, aren’t you describing liking but wanting to be even better?
I’m similar, but end up changing AT Sunday SS for a Z2 endurance (3-4hrs). Keep getting SS recommendations for that day, other days seem to be great AT adaptions