I’m currently following Sweet Spot base plan (high volume) and notice that a collection of seemingly gratuitous adaptations are suggested pretty much every day. Since it’s base training there is little progression prescribed, and the adaptations swap out basically equivalent workouts.
For example, it will swap a 4.2 for a different 4.2 endurance workout, or shuffle Tues/Thurs workouts back/forth. Often it will suggest an adaptation one day only to undo it the next.
Is anyone else experiencing this? I would expect the ML to be detuned enough to filter out this degree of precision.
I experience bursts of this too. I’m just wrapping up SSB1, then General Build, then SSB2. A couple weeks ago it would frequently juggle around my January SSB2 workouts, and I would usually try to skip those adaptations.
Overall I really appreciate adaptive training, but it has it’s quirks for sure. For me those are:
Why are you adjusting anything in January? It’s so far away. If it’s changing now it will SURELY change again before January. Leave me alone.
Why are you adjusting V02 workouts in my build phase? I think my PL started around 1, is still 1, and I don’t think I’ve done a V02 workout yet as part of SSB1. My FTP has gone up and I guess that’s it… but my V02 PL is 1 and I think it was also 1 when the the plan was scheduled.
Why do I have to accept ALL adaptations? I don’t want to accept adaptations like the above that are so far away or that I don’t think make sense. Plenty of time there are some good adaptations which apply to my next few workouts and are related to the energy systems I’m actually training. I’d love to accept those, and then say “skip the rest”.
Regardless, still a fan and getting served good workouts. I expect once I start training V02 and establish my actual power level the adaptations will also figure themselves out.
The only thing I would change is that I don’t see much value in adapting more than the next week or two’s workouts. Or maybe I just don’t need to know about them; it’s just noise. If I could choose to turn of all adaptations beyond 2 weeks out, I would.
I get this too but for me I think its my fault, I will frequently select a higher level alternative as I’m trying to boost my AI FTP and have the room for more volume/TSS. It seems to want to keep me at a set TSS for the 4 week block, if I do a 30 min longer workout it will make my next workout 15 min less, and a workout next week 15 min less or something like that. Kind of annoying because I’m trying to add more work, asked in the AI FTP thread about the best way to do this but didn’t get an answer yet.
Yup, Im experiencing same phenomenon too on polarized MV base… seemingly senseless constant shuffling around of the same group of endurance rides. changes then changes back-- changes again then changes back. Happens more than twice/week - no identifiable reason
First off, welcome to the TrainerRoad forum @jeffleonard!
After looking into your questions and having spoken with the team, I have a better understanding of what is going on here.
If a Workout is being switched to another Workout of the exact same Level and Zone, this is a bug. We have reported this to the team so that they can work on a fix. Thanks for raising this, guys!
While we are working on a fix, if these adaptations are being suggested with other appropriate adaptations, I suggest you you accept them. If the adaptations are suggested made alone, without other meaningful adaptations, you can go ahead and ignore them.
@Dexvd, I had a look into this for you. We do not use TSS to drive adaptations. It looks like many of the Workouts you have been doing recently have been below your current Progression Level, meaning that you Progression Levels are susceptible to decay, and thus prompting Adaptive Training to decrease the difficulty of subsequent rides.
5 out of your last 6 rides were achievable Workouts, all of which were substantially below your Current Progression Level. I’d like to understand how those Workouts were scheduled. Did you manually schedule those Workouts or did you decline Adaptations that might have adapted those workouts to more challenging workouts?
I’m also looking into whether this is intended behaviour. I will circle back around when I have an answer to this .
Let me know if anyone has questions about any of the above .
Just yesterday I completed an endurance workout and got a couple of adaptations (that make sense) for ~January 29th. It’s not causing me much grief, but surely seems like its too far out to be worth adapting.
I was assigned no productive workouts in this first block of the plan as seen in the first image, looking ahead I don’t recieve anything productive until I enter the Trad Base Block II, before starting Trad Block I I completed Andrews 5.4 and then added the Trad Base Blocks (I, II and III) but the Block I did not seem to account for my 5.4 PL in endurance or could not as it seems to want to keep me at a lower TSS, for example when I completed Bershire the suggested adaptations were to decrease Virginia to a lower level 1:30 minute workout and change Perkins to 1:30 workout, I calculated the week’s TSS and it was a TSS of 216 instead of 230 and it included generally lower level workouts and less time, so I rejected that adaptation.
As you can see how the work I have done compared to the work I was assigned so far in the first block I am exceeding what has been prescribed in TSS, TL and time.
I have increased my PL each week in Endurance (the only type of workout I have been assigned in this block) so I am confused by your commend about progression level decay. 3 of my last 8 workouts (the 8 workouts I have completed in the past 2 weeks) were productive.
Hey @Dexvd, thanks for the detailed response. That helped me figure out what is going on here.
It looks like you haven’t updated your FTP in a while, and your Endurance Progression Level is at 5.9 which is higher than the available Workouts due to the time limitations of the Low Volume Plan. I’d suggest that you use AI FTP detection to check if your FTP has changed. If so, this will likely reset your Progression Levels, and thus allow you to see adaptations for Productive Workouts.
Alternatively, the Traditional Base Mid Volume I Plan will have more productive Workouts available beyond your current Progression Level.
Hi Sarah,
I agree that I think this is the issue, at the start of this plan I did do the AI FTP test and it recommended a drop (217 down to 214) I disagreed with this and did not accept it. As I complete the final 2 weeks of this Trad Base Block I I will be able to AI FTP test again. I had inquired through a ticket and on the forum as to what I did wrong that it suggested a drop to prevent it from occurring in the future but TR staff I spoke to said they couldn’t determine why due to the complexity of the AI FTP system. I believe it was likely related to my reduced volume with a busy CX racing season (several weekends where my plan removed the workout as I was racing that weekend).
I have expressed it before but I wish there was something between low and mid volume. Low volume targets about 4 hours a week and mid volume is 6-8 hours per week. I can manage about 6 hours a week at best on a consistent basis (3 long workouts per week and 1 short if I am not doing any outdoor riding that week). That puts me in between the 2 so I have been advised to and I believe its what they usually suggest on the podcast to do Low volume with the addition of a Train Now workout once per week. However, due to the time/TSS limitations of the low volume plan, I’m on a non-productive plan unless I choose an alternative for every workout. I generally have been choosing harder workouts but haven’t chose them to all be productive.
Looking at my week this week Brasstown 5.2 1:30, Virginia 5.3 1:45 and Cumberland 4.9 1:15, with my PL currently at 5.9.
I would look to choose alternates like Polar Bear -3 5.6 2:00, Virginia +1 6.3 1:45 and Sandy Bay 6.0 2:15, for a 6 hour total instead 4.5 hours. With 2 of 3 workouts being above my current PL. If I have time, I may also move my Sunday workout to Saturday and do a lower level workout of 45mins to an hour on Sunday such as West Vidette or Bald, to increase the time to 6:45 to 7:00 hours but may not have the time to do so.
I’m unsure how to approach the week after, the 4th week of the block as it is supposed to be a taper, with 3 lower level workouts ‘to help absorb the work’ I am thinking targeting 4.5 hours instead of the prescribed 3 hours with workouts in the 4 range rather than the prescribed 2.7 to 3.3 range. It seems the final week is not intended for productive workouts.
Hi @SarahLaverty, thanks for the prompt reply and for following up.
While we are working on a fix, if these adaptations are being suggested with other appropriate adaptations, I suggest you you accept them. If the adaptations are suggested made alone, without other meaningful adaptations, you can go ahead and ignore them.
Indeed, this is the policy I have been following. I haven’t noticed any negative impact, it is just a slight nuisance. Planning to jump on the polarized beta once this block is done, looking forward to it!
By the way, I have a couple usability suggestions for this text editor
For this reason, I suggest you switch to the Mid- Volume Plan if you decide not to use AI FTP detection at the moment. You can skip a Workout on the Mid- Volume Plan and your Training Plan will adapt accordingly. That’s not an issue at all. This would save you brain power as you won’t have to choose Alternatives for every Workout or worry about the taper week. That will get taken care of for you, and will ensure your training is progressing at an optimal rate in relation to your unique fitness, ultimately improving your chances of success with the Plan.
Ooooh, exciting, let us know how you get on! I’m hoping to schedule a Science of Getting Faster Podcast to discuss Polarised Training in the near future, so keep your eyes peeled for that!
I am open to trying that, I had always gotten the impression that if you are inconsistent with the adaptive training (ie skipping a workout on a regular basis or choosing an easier alternate, for me one that would take less time) it would throw things off more than low volume +1 Train Now workout approach. However, I think my issue with the constant adaptation suggestions is because low volume is attempting to restrict my TSS and time each week and within the block.
What is the best method to switch into Trad Base mid volume? Like what steps do I take to replace my current plan of LV Trad Base I, II and III?
I’ve always had good luck simply deleting and then bedding in a new plan. I think I’ve even done this mid-plan; IIRC when you add the new plan with retroactive start date, it only schedules current/future workouts and will adapt to your current progression levels.
I feel like I am experiencing something similar as well. I currently doing mid-volume polarized base and I fee like my endurance workouts will flip back and forth between workouts of similar PL. Sometimes duration will change from 90 minutes to 120 minutes or vice versa but the adaptations are seemingly not meaningful changes. This was my second adaptation this evening after completing an endurance workout:
You can seamlessly change the volume of individual training blocks as shown in the article above or you can delete and re-add your Training Plan, also explained in that article.
The Low Volume Training Plan is not limited by TSS, but instead is operating within duration parameters, ensuring to keep it truly Low Volume. The team are working on a feature that will give athletes more autonomy on how long they want to workout each day, which would prevent this dilemma. Hang tight!
Skipping a Workout will not throw off Adaptive Training! Given your case, I think this is definitely the best option at the moment.
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