or be exact 23/84 g of 1 gram of sodium bicarbonate is sodium
1 Like
sorry I must have lost the plot on the bicarbonate loading…
Did you test prior to race on the trainer
Do you find it causes you a lot of water retention?
Going to 99F / 37C tonight for Wed group / social ride. The social aspect for me is getting dropped, going into TT mode, and picking up people that get dropped after I do LOL.
Any reason you used table salt? I’ve only been using sodium citrate and sugar to do a simple knock-off of Precision Hydration (without potassium and other ingredients).
Not enough so that it’s consistently measurable beyond day-to-day changes.
1 Like
I tried it with table salt because there were some reports in this thread of gastric discomfort using NaCl. So I wanted to see if I could replicate that but apparently there is individual variance (no surprise there). Either way, it was ok for me.
1 Like
Did you use any carb source with yours? Playing with something today.
Was 100F when we rolled out of the bike shop. Tried 3000mg sodium citrate with that protocol, my blood pressure has always been on high end end of normal, so I’m always a bit cautious with preloading. HR blew up early and I ended up slow rolling with 2 other guys off the back - 120W average or something at z2 HR where I’d put out 180W in 80-90F the day before. The low 90s seems to be my tipping point. After two hours outside had heat headache after the ride and the next morning.
The one thing that absolutely works for me is going out and riding for 2-4 weeks in the heat to get acclimatized. And then I get those 60W back on z2 rides, and either do intervals in morning or shorter intervals in evening.
1 Like
@WindWarrior How much water do you consume per hour on very hot rides?
And…
Does anyone have a really solid explanation for why 3 sodium citrate products have such strikingly different sodium amounts listed per 1/2-tsp?
Here are my guesses:
- Differences in water content.
- Disodium vs. trisodium citrate
- Legal nutrition facts rounding allowances
- Fineness of granulation
- Measurement error?
The sodium amounts are correlated to the weights associated with the 1/2-tsp serving size. There still appears to be a massive fudge factor.
Paging @redlude97. I’ll be grateful for ELI5.
1 Like
Normally 3 bottles every 2 hours. On Wed I did 2 bottles on the 2 hour ride.
@redlude97 suggested I weigh the sodium citrate to determine which variant I had. Don’t think I posted the details but it was obvious at the time although I didn’t post the details… Metabolic Pathways - #142 by bbarrera
Are they that different?
- 700mg/3000mg = 23.3%
- 530mg/2400mg = 22.1%
- 470mg/2000mg = 23.5%
What is weird is that the “daily value” seems to be different for each of them.
1 Like
Apologies! Variance by sodium per gram of serving size is less than my first glance (uncalculated) estimate. Thank you for pointing that out.
So…
Looks like pretty normal nutrition label rounding & measurement variability explaining the small variability in sodium per gram. (Option 3)
The relatively tight correlation of listed sodium mass per product mass negates option 2, I think. They’re all trisodium citrate.
That correlation also seems to negate substantial variability in water content. (Option 1)
I could imagine granularity causing some variability in mass by volume, but the images from the supp pages are all pretty similar, visually. 50% seems a lot. But I’m no chemist.
Is 50% reasonable for just option 4?
1 Like
Okay more data discrepancy in salt land.
How many grams of table salt in a teaspoon of table salt? Seems simple.
Answer:
5.69 g
5.69 g
5.92 g
5.998 g
4.93 g
Per this article, various granulations of table salt can have has much as 100% variability between lowest and highest mass by volume. 3-7 grams per tsp.
That’s between different “grinds” though. Very visible texture differences.
Can this be true for just different brands of “granulated salt?” (ie. table salt)
Does iodized vs. non-iodized play any role? Seems like there is probably less than 1 milligram per tsp (Mayo Clinic), so iodine seems negligible.
I’ll be exceedingly grateful for anyone who can shed some light on this for me. I’m attempting to make unit conversions more accurate for a workout fueling app. If anyone’s interested in beta testing, we’ll probably start in a month or so. Just want to make sure I’m not sending anyone to the bathroom mid-ride by way of poor unit conversion and rounding!
2 Likes
Um…maybe the problem is the volumetric unit of “teaspoon”. My teaspoons might be different from yours. Personally I’d rather stick with grams!
Regarding the different grinds of table salt…pretty sure this is opening a can of worms. There’s a couple of problems, one is that different grain shapes and size distributions can have different packing density, so the same mass can fill up a different volume. The other is that the grains tend to segregate in size. (The “brazil nut effect”, where larger grains float to the top). So if you don’t shake the pack of salt well, your top layers of salt might have a different size and shape than ones further down (and a different packing density, etc). With salt, I’d also think the way you take it out of the container plays a role - pouring vs dipping a spoon in, vs using some sort of salt shaker that might also segregate the grains.
Sorry!
Understood and appreciated! Do you use a food scale when putting your carbs & sodium in a bottle? Just curious how other folks manage their sodium intake in the real world.
If yes to scale, what mass resolution does your scale have and what is the max scale weight?
Nope…I just pour an amount of sugar into the bottle that looks about similar to the one I once weight out.
Re sodium, I don’t actually add anything. If it is hot (which is rare), I use electrolyte tablets. Been thinking that I might need to add more salt, but I haven’t really noticed any difference.
What a difference more sodium makes!
I struggled in the past and particularly in a hot 100m race in mid April. Frustrated with my performance in the heat, I sought out and paid for the Precision Hydration (PH) sweat test. According to the test I was a medium sweater on the edge of high. PH stated I lose 1085mg of sodium per 32oz of sweat.
PH recommend 1500mg of sodium the night before and the morning of the race. Also, 1000mg per hour. Which was more than double what I had been taking (480 per hour).
I followed the recommendations above. I just did a 7 hour XCM race in the heat this past weekend and what a night and day difference! The best I’ve ever felt in the heat. I may even experiment with a bit more sodium to see if it has even a better affect.
MORE SODIUM FOR THE WIN!
7 Likes
Probably the labels are based on some assay results the seller has…a given batch of sodium citrate can have varying sodium content for several reasons…moisture content and di- / tri- mix in the sample are probably the most likely culprits. Also, consider that ALL LABELS VARY WILDLY like this. 
All this and more was once explained to me by another Alex in a phone call during which he answered all my annoying questions and I listened to him vent about being caught in a softcore FDA honeytrap at the behest of (oestensibly) Optimum Nutrition. Fun times. But, anyhow, I found out you can spend a lot of money getting things absolutely down to the exact gram. Or, I could chill out a little, relax about consume a little bit of ‘ash’, and not sweat +/- a few dozen milligrams.
Not that that is my advice to you. I’m just rambling. Enjoying this thread more than I ever thought I would. Really what it comes down to is that my gut can probably tolerate a lot more salt than your gut can. Who knows why. I actually like slamming that much salt and even as I type this I’m craving it a little.
1 Like
Hello everyone,
I have been reading this thread with great interest.
I am about to embark in a 3 day trip, about 400 kilometers (I think that’s about 240 miles or so) and max temperatures are bordering on 31 degrees in my neck of the woods. It will be sunny and I will be riding with a strong group.
I usually run hot. I sweat and drink a lot, usually by the time I finish two bottles, others I ride with have a lot of water left (sometimes even more than one bottle). I sweat a lot but I can’t really say how much sodium I lose.
I read about the sodium citrate, but I can’t really find it in bulk over here. I found a ready-made mix , cheap and sold in pharmacies here in Spain, specific for rehydration of people who suffered acute dehydration.
The formula says, each satchel has got:
NaCl: 3’5 grams
Potassium chloride: 1’5 grams
Di-hydrated sodium tri citrate: 2,9 grams
Glucose: 20 grams
I am tempted to follow the sodium pre-load protocol. But I have a question regarding ready-made electrolyte drinks. They usually contain also potassium , magnesium, etc.
Are there any limits I should mind? What would be the interactions if any with other electrolytes?
With the composition above, according to my math, I’d get about 1800 mg of sodium, is that correct? So I guess one satchel would be good for drinking 70 minutes before leaving.
Cheers,
M