5 Years of TR but still getting dropped (Updated with Interim Results )

Training
95

At your wight and height you have a lot of room for a lot of FTP growth. Because of this you can do a lot of short duration VO2 efforts to jump start the process of growing your fitness. I know this is the OPPOSITE of what some might suggest. But…

You mentioned above about doing 160 mile rides. Although that sounds impressive around the office, Those rides are not usually done the appropriate way to gain any type of fitness adaptation.

To really make a ride that long count toward your actual fitness the 17mph average speed should not even be looked at. You would want to try and stay in your real zone 2 to zone 3 power or dare i SAY IT ( HEART RATE ZONES ) for as much of that ride as possible to gain anything. Riding at 100 watts for 1 minute then spiking to 300 watts for 20 seconds over a hill then back down to 50 watts to recover before you level back out at 100 watts over and over again on that long 160 mile ride does nothing for your fitness and is actually just the easiest method to finish a ride that long.

Your other outdoor rides, spirited group rides where the power gets heavy over the rollers and hills, these are the rides that will get you stronger ( MOSTLY WHEN ) you have a lot of fitness growth left to uncover. You cant keep up because when you are doing your looonger slooower 160 mile rides your other buddies are doing harder 30 to 40 mile rides.

My personal advise, Do rides just like those group rides when you are solo. And they only have to be an hr long right now. Go out and hammer for an hr. How do you do that? Find out your tempo HEART RATE and or power and ride at that level for as much of the ride as you can AND on all of the hills and rollers you must POWER up them to the best of your ability. Spike the power on the hills but then dont let up after cresting the hill continue riding at the elevated ( TEMPO ) HR. You will most likely have to let up some to recover but the better you get at knowing your TEMPO and riding at it while still being able to hammer the rollers and hills the more you will gain from this entry level but effective style of training.

Pick a 15 mile loop around your home with some rollers and hills and ride it 3 days a week as hard as your can. Do that for 3 months, 3 days a week. Say Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. Don’t even worry about volume or longer rides yet. Use the rest of the week for recovery, maybe some easy recovery rides if you feel you can get it in. It will take you some time to feel what power you can put out over the hills but honestly don’t even look at power or HR on your rides for the next 3 month until AFTER your ride to analyze. Just be HONEST with yourself and admit if you think you didn’t go hard on the hills or if you let up too much on your tempo.
This doesnt mean go ALL OUT on the hills but it does mean getting out of the saddle on the rollers and pushing a bit harder up them until you crest over. There will be trial and error. Start small and short 15 mile rides. TEMPO on the flats PUSH IT on the hills and rollers. And at some point you might not feel up for pushing it hard on that day, dont do it, ride that day easy. but still get out there and ride the loop easy, and ride at least 3 days a week during this time. Short, Hard Tempo, Effective

This isn’t the best way to train forever but its a good way to jump start your motor.

Long rides are great but you wont get that strength to keep up with your buds by doing them without something else.

After 3 months, see where you are. Then you could potentially start to work on some structured ( SWEET SPOT BASE ) and bring it indoors for more structured training.

96

Thanks for the response - you’ve acutally describe my normal mid-week rides pretty spot on with the 15 mile loop, as that’s what the team usually does during the week. Think this is probably having some benefit to my training just trying to hang on.

100% agree, though I’m not a racer and I ride to enjoy it and the longer weekend rides are what I love about riding, so giving that up makes all the training useless. I recognize that there is no intended “training” component built in - apart from pure endurance and saddle time. That said, yes I’d like to get faster to keep up with the squad, but there are two different different types of rides that I do. Suffering out there every time you ride sucks some of the fun out of the beauty and freedom of simply riding and enjoying not being at a desk.

Its true they focus on a hard 30-40, but also ride less days a week than I do, so they do have some natural fitness yet struggle w/the longer rides. I join for all the 30-40 mile blasts, as i think you’re right that this helps build the fitness, but I also tack on longer rides as well, when the group isnt riding, for the above reason.

Funny enough, your timing is almost spot on, I’ve been in the group for about 3 months doing these harder sessions, and, according to the latest FTP test, have seen a little improvement since joining and just upping the intensity. I’m planning on continuing to do these harder sessions like u mention to “jump start the motor” (and to stay w/the group) To this, will likely add some more volume as well, like eveyrone has said. Prob also a bit frustrated that the new guys, who started riding this year, likely have more natural fitness and can keep up, when I’m struggling to do so despite spending more yrs on the bike. Though this stimulis change has seemed to help.

Once again thanks everyone for the suggestions! Though you may all regret it when i’m passing y’all on zwift. 250w I come :rofl:

97

Hi. Everyone here knows more about cycling than I do so I’ll only toss out one thing that I did not see (might have missed it as I did not read EVERY post). Sleep. Are you sleeping enough? Its one of my biggest issues. When I get 8 hours I feel so much stronger but after a few 6-7 hour nights I’m toast.

98

This is actually a great point - are you recovering enough to benefit from TR training!

99

Yes, and just to add, I dont think what I said is the be all end all and the only thing you could do to get more endurance right now. Realistically, cycling IS an " endurance " sport so it really comes down to duration or time of efforts in the correct zones oppose to how hard you can hammer. BUT, without knowing anything about you and from your post mentioning doing something for 5 years and not seeing results, combined with a pretty low FTP, short hard efforts can just get you going enough to then start to work on more middle zone longer efforts in the near future.

And I agree, long rides are great and you have to ride for fun as much as wanting to gain more endurance. So whatever makes you feel good out there you have to do. But once you figure out YOUR zones, your accurate or close to as accurate as possible zones, you can really enjoy riding even when its " training specific ". Because you don’t always have to Hammer Hard to gain more endurance.

100

Cus he ain’t going hard enough and quits when it hurts.

101

Definitely makes sense to me, like eveyone said more volume, more intensity… Probably pretty simple formula. It’s likely my past training just wasn’t intense enough to get me there. Got some guys who have been riding for less than a yr on the squad who may just be naturally fitter, so for me, ded need more work.

After re-testing on tues after 3 mos with the squad I ended up at 3w/kg and 230 ftp, which to some of the animals here is a pittance, but happy w 7% increase in 3 months. Hope that continues.

103

Not sure that’s necessary. I wouldnt have posted to a forum to get constructive advice without having done what i think would have given me results, the question was for constructive advice because, unlike you, who are clearly pro material, some of us need friendly advice on what to do.

True, i may not be as fit as everyone here, true I dont train 7 days a week like everyone here, so sure, call me “untrained”, but you’re false in your assertion of me not following their plans. In my winter seasons I had religiously followed their Low volume plans, but my fitness peaked using those plans and clearly something was missing. Its sad you think it’s that simple for everyone, that everyone’s gains and capacity should be equally quick, and everyone has the same ability. Clearly many people here had good suggestions, which are greatly appreciated and I will be following them moving forward. So thank you to all of those who replied with thoughtful responses. While you started strong with some good constructive thoughts, unfortunately comments like yours make weaker riders hesitant to reach out to better riders for friendly advice…

104

That is quite harsh… and inaccurate. The OP mentioned several times that he was following the TR plans during the winter, but that his fitness seemed to “plateau”, hence that he was missing something. No click bait, just someone looking for advice from fellow TR users.

105

You’re being way too nice… It was completely unnecessary. Don’t feel the need to defend yourself from this.

107

@iamholland Just don’t give up, I got guys on my ride 13 yrs my junior as well and it’s infuriating to watch them cruise by when you’re sucking wind, but hey, there’s something we all love about riding that brings us back despite it! Unfortunately we can’t all be @Ian747 with his “measley” 4.5-5 w/kg :star_struck: Stick with it man!

108

Man you’re being really harsh. BPmessenger has been quite active in this thread discussing what could be happening and why he isn’t getting results.

I’m sure more people than he are having these issues. So why hate on him? He has had 5 years of training and things haven’t been working well.

You don’t have to help, or read the thread but there has been some valuable insights in this thread.

109

I think I’ve been in a slightly similar boat to you BPmessenger.

I ride a lot in the later fall to spring on TR, and I get FTP gains. Then I got out in the summer and do group rides and races. Then when I get back to training in the fall, my FTP has fallen.

I’ve gotten my FTP up to 285, but I’m a bit heavier than you, ~200 lbs (210 right now), which is putting me around 3.0 w/kg. What I’m realizing is that when I am not doing my trainer workouts my consistency has tanked to the point where I’m not really getting any adaptation in the summer.

I’m kind of assuming that this might be happening to you.

One issue I’ve had is that I’m on a bike team and it seems like there are not many people around 3.0 w/kg. There are 4.0 w/kg folks but they’re hard to ride with. Then there are 2.x w/kg folks who want to ride with me, but then I’m not getting the training impulse that I need. I have a hammer type ride that I do with the 4.0+ w/kg guys, but there is a hill that I have a hard time getting over early in the loop and I get dropped. So, after that I don’t get in a good workout like I should riding with them.

Right now I’m starting my cycle over at SSB MV1 and I’m going to really concentrate on consistency. I’ve also noticed that I get my biggest FTP gains in SSB MV2, so I’m hoping to be able to do a shortened base 1&2 cycle, then return and redo MV1&2 fully. I’m hoping to increase my FTP before moving onto build.

Also, reading your earlier posts I’m wondering if after 5 years of riding if LV is going to do the trick for you? You might need the medium volume plans. (I skipped from post 50 to here, so if this is repetitive forgive me.)

110

@vladrath For sure sounds famliar. I think you’re echoing what alot of people said up top about boosting the volume from LV to MV, so seems to be a consistent & useful piece of advice. Like some folks have said, LV may work for some people but probably the minority (and clearly that’s not me)

Like you, I’ll be starting SSB MV1. I think this summer (first time with this team) probably has benefited me since its a whole different type of riding than my normal steady state efforts, as some people pointed out. The rides with those 4.0 guys is exactly my issue as well, there are 2 hills that just smash me, but I guess it does seem to help push yourself - this, coupled with building the base is probably key.

111

I’m glad you posted this. I’ve only been at TR since January but seem to have made little gain in FTP (if not, lost some) certainly, other aspects of my fitness have improved such as endurance.

What I notice in common with you is inconsistent weeks and perhaps too low volume. I skipped too many workouts on SSB MV, so I’m going to do SSBLV with two longer rides through the week (one highly anaerobic, the other long and steady) . I’m going to aim to keep my cycling TSS over 400 apart from recovery weeks and then incorporate 2-3 hrs running.

As you can see from that other guy, consistency gets results!

Good luck breaking through!

112

Because I work shifts I often ride midweek daytime with slower riders, If needed I will go on the front when there is a strong headwind, or double back on hills to push/help/ encourage the stragglers. This can be used as a recovery ride. ( i have been known to ride a chaingang or a Pub ride (hammerfest) in the evening.
Also

"I’m not getting the training impulse that I need, " Trimp is intensity x time, you could always tag on a short hill repeat session after your ride with the slower group.

113

[forgives u] :latin_cross:

114

One thing you may be missing is that while you’re improving, others are too! I’ve been chasing a lot of the same people for years, but we’ve just all gotten faster. And, not everybody shares everything they’re doing - you probably have some fellow TR users in the bunch; they may not tell you.

115

@bpmessenger @iamholland Sorry guys - got caught up in work too much to respond, but keep at it yo. There are always gonna be people faster than you, but never stop trying to become the best version of you possible. Keep putting in the hard work. Keep your head up. I am rooting for both of you!

117

I started TR 7 months ago at 242 watts. Every 2 weeks I increased my FTP on TR by 6 watts. I know this is not scientific - and it hurt more than anything - but has resulted in an 80 watt increase. I was also being dropped on a local chain gang - and could not compete on the final sprint. But quickly I found I had more ‘air’. Embrace the pain !! make it hard - and feel the improvements