12 hours a week for 3 months; 0 watts gained. lol

Been doing structured training for exactly a year (riding for two years total). I do a mix of TR workouts (Climbing Road Race Plan) and long outdoor Z2ish rides.

This is not a criticism of TR. To be clear; I don’t follow the plans to the letter of the law and add extra mileage.

Was just a little deflated to see zero gains after a two month block of build. I definitely feel stronger, but I guess the numbers don’t lie.

You were an elite/pro athlete in another sport weren’t you? Do you mind saying which sport?

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That is a bit of a let down.

What did your training look like? Did your progression levels increase as you expected? What was your adherence like to the TR plan? No criticism, just curious

FTP is only one number or measure of fitness.

  1. How about power at other intensities? Look at your whole power curve to see if you made gains in areas other than the FTP area.

  2. How about time to exhaustion (TTE)? Are you able to hold the same power for longer? Could be FTP related but could also be other intensity’s.

  3. Have you lost weight and/or changed body composition? It may or may not be “performance” related, but you could be improving in other metrics.

Those are the ones that come to mind, but there are similar posts like this with others having stagnating FTP but gains in other areas. Make sure to look further than that one value, because there is more to performance than that.


  • How and why? This may relate to my questions above, but is very worth digging into the specifics here, IMO.

Sounds like it’s time for a proper FTP test. However, I get the disappointment after putting in all that work and expecting and hoping to see an improvement. Are you going to try something new to try and get different results?

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Is your TrainerRoad calendar public?

I do LV. This year I’ve skipped the SS workouts and replaced them with either multiple TR Z2 workouts between 1-2 hours or mostly easy 3-5 hour road rides (Z2. Z3 on climbs when necessary, sometimes on a sat my ego gets the best of me and I might push). Last year I did the same with the SS workouts as well and it felt like too much. My goal this year was to focus on more recovery and a little less volume.

I do all the threshold and Vo2 workouts and have completed 99% of them. I think there were 2 where I had to drop the intensity on the last 1 or 2 intervals of a threshold workout (-5%). Most workouts are “Productive”.

Nope. I’d rather not have the internet warriors attack my lifestyle choices. :joy:


This makes the most sense. The issue is I don’t love hard interval sessions but I feel a sense of accomplishment when I finish them. I do love taking long easy rides in the mountains and doing a weekly social group ride but the volume coupled with my age may be hindering my progress.

The argument would be follow LV plan to the letter of the law and see what comes of it. Problem is I wouldn’t enjoy it.

I feel stronger in the latter half of long rides. My Z2 Hr is down and there’s no drift 3-4 hours in. I feel like I’m putting out more power outdoors in intervals but maybe that’s just my memory.


Those all sound like positive and worthwhile improvements to me, even with a stuck FTP :stuck_out_tongue:


Building out my TTE at threshold was one of the best performance things I ever did. My FTP did not sky rocket but I felt that I was quit a bit stronger on the bike.

Also, I think we all will max out our performance based on our volume and natural vo2max. With consistent training, we might see a small gain year over year.

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Do you use intervals.icu? I like to look at the power curve/vs % of max heart rate. It’s another way I can see improvement at different wattages through time. You can compare custom blocks of time against each other. Might be a way to gauge progress in another fashion, like Chad said.


This is the answer given

Not all positive biological changes translate in increased FTP.

Personally I feel I’m benefitting a lot from sweet spot rides and skipping them for Z2 would leave me less resistant to intensity. But that’s just me.


I guess I was wrong. I might give up cycling. :confused:

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meh on interpreting too much on those charts. Look at your power curve. Look at performances outside where the rubber meets the road. Then consider your life choices and cycling as a hobby :joy:

So if all that looks :-1: then while people are tossing around ideas here’s my food for thought - I got faster following plans made for people that ride outside. Those plans had fewer intervals than TR. And better over-unders IMHO. And faster yet when we dialed back the intervals even more. My idea of a minimal dose is pretty small, yet potent. In other words you might find less is more, and if not maybe that will be the nail in cycling’s coffin for you :rofl: but only one way to find out…


I think your dates are wrong. Looks like you are comparing may 23, 2022 to may24, 2023 to only Feb 23, 2023 to may 24, 2023. Since the first time period overlaps and includes the second period, you won’t see any improvements in the second period since they’re baked into the first period. Try may 23, 2022 up to the beginning of the second period, Feb 22 2023, compared to Feb 23, 2023 through the present


Now that I look at it I think this is better? More watts for less HR max?


Yes. A right shift. :+1:

On that first one you’ve got some possible interval artifacts above ~270W. Don’t pay attention to the extremes. Look at the middle, roughly your zone2 up to about threshold.


Look like improvement to me. Anything down and/or to the right would be more output per heart rate. Six weeks isn’t a terribly long time to see improvement, I’m in the last week of a base block (oly mid volume.) Here is the first few months of this year compared with this block. I see more improvement as I compare multiple months stretches against each other, and seasons against seasons.

Important to note that external factors can affect HR. As we move into summer I expect HR to rise as temperature rises.

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So you’re getting plenty of easy riding, which is good. But you will see FTP get “stuck” if you don’t push VO2max up. You need to take test week then do a VO2max / anaerobic capacity training block. (I assume you’ve been doing an easier week every 3-4 weeks already, if you haven’t that’s part of your problem too). I bet that you’re not doing your hard days (VO2max and anaerobic work) hard enough.

Most training plans do all training based on %FTP, but that’s really flawed. Once you start getting much above FTP, there’s way too much variation person to person and balance of aerobic vs anaerobic fitness. You have to use RPE instead.

So do only 1 or 2 high intensity workouts per week, but ignore power and just ride as hard as you can while still finishing each interval at a relatively even pace. Meaning if it’s a 5 minute interval you should ride at an 7-8/10 intensity and if it’s a 30s interval it should be 9 or 10 intensity.