Zone 2 training with Iñigo San Millán, part 2

WOW, someone did not read the TR community guidlines.

Ha That was me 50+ years ago, and I don’t think my Dad was pleased either

1 Like

I literally died when I read this. LOL :joy:

Be that as it may (and after coming back to life like an avatar in a video game), personality fit and rapport is very important in the coach-athlete relationship, especially if they are all just doing a variation of the same stuff (an argument I have heard a few times from forum members and prominent coaches alike…I don’t fully agree with this, but it’s not completely wrong either).

If the podcast, which is essentially an advertisement, is any indication of what my interaction with someone is going to be like, I cannot say I disagree with the sentiment, just the delivery.

ISM has already said all he needs to say on the half dozen or so podcasts he’s been on (and twitter, and instagram). It gets repetitive. What would he have to gain by appearing on KM podcast? A bunch of questions thinly disguised as criticisms of Brooks? :man_shrugging: Who cares.


I guess you get what you pay for, but thanks for listening and for the thoughtful feedback. I feel very welcome here and I’m glad I started checking these notifications again.


Kolie, remember that polarized is in fashion! :wink:

1 Like

Can someone tell me what a “bro flex” is and where it happened on this thread?

I feel like I just wandered into the twilight zone :confused:

Maybe you are right. In an absolute level is insignificant. But relative to what I expected that conversation to be and what it turned out to be, it was deflating.

This is what “content creators” are trained to say. But the more apt model is opportunity cost.

Check Mark Burnley episode on his YT Channel, a better exposition on allometry.

It’s a slang term I made up with my broken English, to denote a smug, low-brow confrontational attitude.

Thanks for listening to us for so many hours. If you’d like to support the podcast please consider a donation.


And he can promise donations will not be used to purchase domains for jokes

New GCN video :wink:

Interesting. He prefers high zone 2 vs low zone 2. So maybe it is more a Friel kind of zone2 setup?
So the question is. What is better? 10h ISM Z2 or 15h ‘normal’ zone 2 (60-70% ftp)? :slight_smile:


One thing that is key here is that ISM has tools to measure the exact lactate turning points, and thus precisely pinpointing that “high rev gear 1” training that he said that he prefers.

For some that might be 70% of “FTP” (again, which “FTP”?), and for some that might be 75%, or 65%.

Unless you know this, you better stay on the low end or you’re going to be riding tempo…

Riding 10h of ISM Z2 just on the limit is probably going to be a lot of fatigue, and he is very very vague on how he prescribes it.

He never says to go out and ride there for 2-3 hours, he just says he prefers riding close to the limit.

Non-educated guess is that it’s probably optimal for most to ride easy (IF 0.55-6) and then incorporate intervals at the “high rev” Z2, which would be just limit of high Z2. But again, you need to know where that is, otherwise it’s better to stay below.


Friel E2 is not recovery (for me). E2 is more towards LT1 I think. But ok…

if you are referring to Friel, he recommends that because the assumptions are:

  • you took an off-season away from the bike
  • you restarted training and lost fitness (your FTP went down)
  • you will quickly regain FTP during the block
  • therefore use HR zones to avoid frequently retesting FTP

Thanks for sharing. I can see why many coaches have a bit of a beef with ISM:

  1. Thresholds based on physiological testing instead of power curve modeling.
  2. LT1 (or whatever other name) as the main threshold. The stuff above more aligned with CP.
  3. What’s FTP anyways….:stuck_out_tongue:
  4. Simpler than the oversold complexity that is out there.
  5. Push time in z2 to the top of the zone….however I can already see this percolating in the rest of the community.

Broadly speaking I see 5 main coaching philosophies, with many overlapping aspects.

  • Academic CP Model oriented.
  • Coggan FTP model
  • European Practitioner Model which ISM is an appendix off.
  • VLMax Pharisees
  • Norwegians.
1 Like

One reason I went with FasCat for coaching is that in the past Frank did a lot of physiological testing, and then for most athletes kept it simple by switching to power. What do I do now is pretty simple. I do a lot of endurance. I spend a lot of time pushing the top of “zone2” within a broader endurance target. I do some work below and above my “ftp” or upper threshold, and its aligned with events and goals. I’ve been taught how to listen to my body. I can have a conversation with my coach about where my upper threshold is based on unstable physiology (increasing HR on bike computer, and my breathing gets faster/heavier/ragged/barely-holding-on). We use both power and heart rate. We test assumptions at several durations a few times a year.


Finally he has put this “no intensity-harm z2” thing into context. It DEPENDS! If you’re fit/trained lactate gets cleared easily. Here the one example that I have already shared numerous times here. About 5-6 minutes until fat ox has recoverd. And recovered at an higher level! Correcting the low fat ox caused by pre-workout carb intake.


He backed off the “30 minutes to recover from a hard effort at the start of an endurance ride?”

To be fair he always said it depends.

I actually don’t know what he said, I always just read the forum here :slight_smile:

Hard to swallow pill: most of us don’t actually know our fatmax unless it’s been tested by indirect calorimeter and LT1 is not a good indication of fatmax.

Also each new podcast he does seems to confuse people even more.

1 Like