Zone 2 in adaptive training

Editable? If I try to do my endurance rides off lt1 this could get complicated :frowning: also makes me worry if they are training the model based on fixed zones like that it could be poor training. Not everyone with the same ftp has the same lt1. Seems like lt1 could be calculated during the ramp test if they wear a hr strap

  • No, I am not aware of a way to edit the zones directly (without altering the FTP that drives them).
  • What info and/or calculation would drive this estimate?
  • Essentially, how would whatever you suggest differ from the current calculation based on the FTP derived from the same ramp test?
  • Are you looking to set HR zones instead of power zones?

See the link about using hrv to calculate lt1?

No, I haven’t had to time to dig into it, but I see where you are looking to pull the info now.

Or if you are a xert user use ltp but was more thinking how tr could calculate it. (Kind of why I wished tr would buy or merge with xert in that xert had a better way to break down a workout or exercise session but the machine learning and overall training plan and ui seems better in tr. (I.e. xert calculations would feed the model much more useful information)

Let’s keep this thread focused on the Zone 2 / Heart Rate topic at the OP.

Please use the main Adaptive Training thread for discussion about access via beta and other issues already mentioned there.

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Xert has the LTP, as you noted. WKO5 will eventually have their LT1 estimator as well. It’s not clear how TR is going to model things. IIRC, they are still working on estimating FTP. I would assume once they have that model, they can get an estimate of LT1.

It might be easier for Xert, as they anchor on 3 zones instead of bisecting each into high and low with a defined percentage of each.

In other words, until TR gets the FTP estimator going, it’s unlikely they will have the basis to estimate LT1. Even then, there will need to be some redefinition of zones, which may get confusing. But, I’d guess some folks would be able to adapt as TrainingPeaks (and others like Garmin, Today’s Plan, etc.) allows you to manipulate percentages.

That said, Xert’s LTP has a correlation to volume as well (to increase LTP % you have to increase volume of training load, effectively), so it would be interesting to see the development of TR in this area. I nearly had a heart attack when Xert pushed my LTP to ~83% TP. I had to reset my account and reload data.

We will see how this all pans out.

Tr is doing ftp prediction because everything they have now is based on ftp. Estimating lt1 based on power is still more of an estimate then doing the calculations based on hrv during a ramp test. To the end user they wouldn’t do anything different other then being encouraged to wear a hr strap.

I guess I’m more thinking about the other side of this of trying to figure out what wattage I should do endurance workouts at. Training a model to determine if an endurance workout is useful or not seems highly dependent on if the endurance workout is at the right target wattage. This could have a big impact on their a/b testing of polarized training plans

I’m ok then, mine’s only at 82% :grin:

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Tp 142w, ltp 85w. Also off the bike since October from a wrist injury so lost lots of fitness and need to get back was at 176w for ltp. Just want to make sure I’m doing it efficiently

@Nate_Pearson Is there anything you can say publically about this for AT? Is the plan to have zones just be a percent of FTP (i.e. everyone else who has the same FTP as me has the same zones even if the points we are set to is unique or wil TR attempt to figure out what is the unique wattage target for us.

The progression system takes care of this.

Basically where you are relative to your ramp test result will change based on your performance.

IE you might be doing VO2 intervals at 115% or 125%.

Feels like that isn’t really modeling the way the body works as well. For example if I am doing an endurance ride I’d want it based on my LT1 value not FTP

It’s a mix between performance and RPE, and thus you end up at LT1.

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From my understanding of the way AT works is is not changing the power target, just the number and length of the intervals. With endurance not having intervals to change I don’t see how it would change endurance rides

The power target it changed too based on the levels.

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Guess I’ll have to see how close it gets to what is calculated using what I posted above. I still think once you get the hrv code into the app it wouldn’t hurt to capture it during a ramp test. Thanks for the clarification

@mcneese.chad have you seen your power targets change for intervals based on what Nate said about adaptive training?

Here are my zones pulled from my ride last night, that is after my Ramp on Tues (based on 257w FTP).

And for reference, here is my info per the 7- Level Coggan data:

There are some subtle differences of a couple watts between the two. No idea if that is the same as old or new? I don’t often look this closely at my post ride wattage on that table. And AFAIK, that is the only way to see your “Zones”. There is no way to access in your career or account tabs.

Comparing to your previous screen shot it looks like the zones changed but will need a bigger screen to see if the percent changed. Guessing you aren’t in xert to compare how the two track.

My opinion based on what I’ve seen of xert discussions is that the zones aren’t generic for a given ftp but unique per person. Not sure how rpe helps with endurance zone work. Shouldn’t those rides always be easy? So how do you know if it’s not too easy?