Power VS heartrate zones

Hi,

Last winter I had a test in a lab to get my zones correctly (based on heartrate).

My VT1 was 138bpm, and VT2 165bpm. Max HR 182.

I had a powermeter, and via testing i got the power ranges that matches my HR zones.

If i look at my endurance Workouts in TR, I see the FTP around 50-60%.

But according to my lactate test (combined with HR), my VT1 is around 70% of my FTP…

Yes my endurance levels are much better trained than my high vo2max zones.

Now I am doubting that the endurance rides via TR are Maybe a bit to easy. My heartrate is very low if I cycle around 55% of my FTP.
According to my heartrate zones I am cycling in recovery zone.

What do you think?? I dont see an option to change zones to manual setting to have it set up correctly so it match more closely to the lab test.

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I think you should do your endurance rides by RPE such that you get a good aerobic stimulus from them while still being able to go hard on your interval days without building up too much fatigue.

Your body knows nothing of zones, whether they’re determined by HR, Power or whether Venus is in Capricorn.

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55% of FTP is the top of Z1/z2 boundary in many zone models, so I’m not surprised your HR is so low. What workouts have you done that have such low targets yet call themselves endurance rather than recovery.

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Hey @roudeelferink :slight_smile:

I took a look at your account, and it seems like this is your first time on a TR training plan! Welcome!

Because your Progression Levels will all start you at level 1, hence the easy Endurance workout, it may take 1 or 2 workouts in each zone to have Adaptive Training give you the Workout Levels that meet your current fitness.

As you get through the training plan you’ll see that your Endurance Workout Levels will increase, as well as your other power zones.

I see you chose a Workout Alternate for your first Endurance workouts. This is a great way to choose a different Difficulty Level from what it’s prescribed, if you feel the workout is too easy.

Note: Just be mindful that on Recovery Weeks the super easy Endurance workouts are there for a reason… to rest :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

Lastly, we do have onboarding calls, which have proven to be really helpful! We get on a Zoom call with you and answer any questions you may have, as well as make sure you’re all set up to have the best season!

Screenshot 2024-08-20 at 4.23.15 PM

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My body does not know zones, correct,
But my body does know how and how fast it can clear lactate… And i did 2 lactate tests in the last 2 years, and it showed that the lactate build up is 0% when i stayed under VT1 at 138bpm (or 180W of power).
VT2 is where my body is not able anymore to clear the lactate and I am above the threshold of 165bpm or 250-260W of power.

That is science and you can use is for correct training.
Endurance is below VT1, when TR is giving me a endurance workout of 135-150W, if feels pretty easy compared to the 180W that I can do with an RPE of 3-4…
with 135-145W my HR will be around 100-110bpm… very low stimulus.

Thank you Caro,

I will use the plan for 2-3 weeks to see how it adapts to my fitness…

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Because power and HR zones might not be aligned, you need to experiment with endurance rides and adjust to yourself over longer period:

When using TR plans, I follow Z3+ as prescribed but for Z2 I go something like this:

  • 3h: using power (65-70% of FTP) – for me, it is short ride, this power range is not exhausting but triggers slightly higher stimulus
  • 4h+: remain below or at VT1, not to disturb nervous system too much

Sure, I can go 8h at 75% of FTP and recover for hard day but doing it twice a week drains motivation quite fast.

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Yes, that was my intention also, but TR plans gives to much TSS to these kind of efforts and want to change the following workout to compensate… You can decline the proposed change, but i would like to be more on point with the schedule and work with correct data to get the right training stimulus.

I know my zones are not aligned, i did a lot of polarized training in the lower zones and neglected my upper zones…

Maybe when TR plan gets more data from my workouts it will get suited better, we will see in the coming weeks. And also do more workouts in the upper zones get’s me more aligned with TR.

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Endurance rides in TR plans do not go above 5h, this is probably why they prescribe higher TSS. On the other hand, I do twice a week 8-12h rides, so I have to diverge from TR plans.

:raised_hands: :raised_hands:

Nailed it. This is how you get faster :zap:.

It looks like you just started your Training Plan two days ago. Hang tight, you’ll quickly see those Endurance Workouts progress. If we just look ahead to this weekend, we can already see the progression.

I’m excited for you! Your current approach is going to allow you to get the most out of TrainerRoad :sparkles:.

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So this approach has served me well the last year and a bit, but I’ve been doing ALL my zone by heart rate, for me I know the range finishes around 148bpm (can you talk test), so I’ve been riding with Zwift pace partners with the heart rate in the range, once my heart rate is lower than I expected, then I move up (or down) to the next pace partner, I do not look at what % of FTP my power output is

As the Zone2 % of HR is only a guide, the more you train your Z2 the % might change, and progression is covered automatically

Also, I am currently injured, but once I get back all the bike, all I have to do is ride around @ the top end of my Z2 and it “could” give me a indication of how much my FTP has dropped during the 8 weeks that I will be off the bike

There’s lots of good info already here, but I can’t help but share my thoughts on this fun topic too! :nerd_face:

It’s first important to remember that we’re all different and the power/HR ranges that most of us follow are basic ranges that aim to work well enough for most of their users.

What’s challenging about this is that each of our precise markers of LT1, LT2, and VO2 Max are likely in a slightly different relationship to each other on any given day. In other words, they shift around over time and aren’t tied to each other.

My LT1 might be at a much lower % of my FTP than someone else’s, but my FTP could be at a much higher % of my VO2 Max and theirs. These three metrics change over time and without regular lab work it can be difficult to precisely keep track of them all.

The good news is that over the years we’ve found really good ways to accurately estimate your FTP which is arguably the most important metric to know with 20-minute tests, ramp tests, and now AI FTP Detection. :raised_hands:

Additionally, the majority of people don’t need to know their VO2 Max to train this system efficiently. High-level athletes looking for those last .01% might want to see where their LT2 lies in comparison to their VO2 Max in order to analyze where they have room for growth, but for most of us, that’s not necessary.

That leaves LT1 which, falls somewhere between LT2 and VO2 Max in terms of importance to know in my opinion. @roudeelferink you were lucky enough to get tested to find precisely where yours lies, but for most athletes, I recommend using HR data when training in zone 2, and in your case, I still might since your FTP is likely to sway back and forth over time more often than your HR. You have multiple ways to dial in on your true LT1 though with either power or HR data.

As @Caro.Gomez-Villafane mentioned, the workouts you’re currently being served might not match your current abilities perfectly, but Adaptive Training will figure this out and get things dialed in pretty quickly. If you want to give it a bit of a nudge using Workout Alternates is a good idea, and if you’re specifically looking for a 60-minute workout that might move the needle a bit, I’d recommend giving something like Muir (50 minutes @70% of FTP) or Beech (60 minutes @ 65-75% of FTP) a shot. The good news is that there are lots of Endurance workouts in our library that prescribe riding at 70%+ of your FTP so you’ll see those down the road. :slightly_smiling_face:

Another thing to remember is that some of your easy workouts will be classified as Active Recovery which means that the goal is to work in zone 1, not zone 2, so keep an eye out for those and make sure to keep those workouts really easy.

It’s super cool that you were able to get into a lab and see where all of your metrics currently are (I’d love a chance to do this someday). This is really valuable information to have and I’m sure it will come in handy during your training down the road! :bar_chart:

Best of luck!

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Thanks for posting, I had the same question, and welcome to the TR plans.

I’m on recovery week this week and couldn’t help notice how low my HR was on an endurance ride. My HR zones are based off LTHR.


However, the week before I was doing another TR assigned endurance ride and I’m just below aerobic threshold, in the zone estimated from LTHR:

So more reassurance that TR will give you workouts that make sense.

Recovery week isn’t supposed to stimulate change, but it is meant to prevent decline while recovering from the previous weeks of load.

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@JoeX great example here :point_up:

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