4w/kg rider here. I do what amber pearce suggests. Fuelling the workouts and creating a deficit at other meals if necessary. It’s been working really well after many years of struggling through workouts thinking I needed to diet on the bike 
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@chancie.cycles I agree that’s the standard and effective way to train and I have been at 4w/kg before, following that method. I think what @dhellman is talking about is a change in the way her body is processing fuel and weight gain that does not diminish in the usual way you describe. So she’s looking at different ways of getting rid of the fat she has gained. From what she says, she’s doing this with an open mind.
I’m interested, as I have suddenly gained fat on my stomach which I’ve never had before - due to medically induced hormone changes. So I’m trying to look outside the box, because the usual methods haven’t worked. I can’t do high intensity training at the moment, but I’m fueling my walks and strength work. What does seem to be working is cutting out sugar from my diet as much as possible.
Hope that makes sense?
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Just knowing you’re up for it has been helpful 
I am still figuring out where my line is. I have maple syrup in my oats in the mornings - about 2 tsp worth. And I’m not checking bread labels or counting fruit. My target right now is more the processed sugary treats; I like @dhellman’s suggestion of cutting out HFCS as a starting point - I think I’m pretty good about that but have fallen down the “it’s a pandemic, you can eat those biscuits” hole more than once in recent months.
I know what you mean about pandemic food mentality. The is a new advert out in the uk from a major supermarket, telling us there is no “naughty list” this year, so go ahead and buy that massive high calorie (delicious) cake !!
I try my best to think of it in terms of what I Can eat, what I can enjoy, what will nurture my body and take me off the sugar roller coaster.
Did Pete talk about eating anything he wanted, in as much quantity as he wanted as long as it was healthy?
It was something along those lines…
Are you still using sugar to fuel high intensity work outs? I intend to when I can. 
@chancie.cycles yes, I agree, that’s a great way to train and to eat for performance. @Bullseye is correct that my goal is different right now, and correctly sums up what I’m trying to change. And yes, I’m trying to do this with an open mind, because many things that I’m being prodded to do are waaayyyy outside my comfort zone. And I have to relinquish control. This is super hard.
@Scheherazade I definitely found the rule of “no HFCS” made it so much easier to stay away from stuff. Prior to that, I had cut out foods with partially hydrogenated fats; eventually I realized that I can taste those fats. They leave a nasty aftertaste in my mouth. Again, I found this makes it really easy to say no to something. It’s harder to say no to all sugar, but this is just makes it easier to ensure the treat is worth it, if you will.
Saw this survey, and thought some of the women in here might be interested. Looking for women aged 18-40, exercising at least 3 hours/week.
https://ljmu.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/science-in-sport-phd-fehn-survey
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At the risk of being booed off the forum for entering here uninvited, I just thought you all might be interested in some of my favorite women researchers and practitioners in sport nutrition:
Dr. Stacy Sims of course is awesome and if you haven’t read her book ROAR, it’s excellent.
Dr. Mel Davis Prolific Nutrition & Behavior Science Author (bias alert: she coauthored a book I wrote, and I am her long-time colleague)
Michelle Howe, RD & Master of Sport Science, Author and cat 1 roadie & All-American triathlete (bias alert: I am her husband)
Dr. Louise Burke an absolute legend in sport science & nutrition.
Dr. Gabrielle Fundaro who is an absolute genius of a nutrition coach and researcher. (bias alert: I am her direct colleague at RP and have sought coaching advice from her)
Regarding fructose, yes, it appears better absorbed without GI issues when in presence of glucose in roughly a 1:1 ratio, especially during training, both for women and men.
Tim Podlogar a researcher out of the UK, originally from Slovenia, I believe, and recently on the TR podcast, has taken to including women in his main subject group for testing, instead of following the widely practiced “industry standard” of selecting either just males, or just females, within a test group, for the purpose of homogeneity of results. That industry standard typically results in just male participants and insufficient female participants (or so claimed by the researchers) to form a female group for study. I hope to see more of it so that I can start concluding “humans tend to respond this way…” from research, rather than “men respond this way… and we have zero idea if it applies to women yet.”
One of his recent findings was the utility of fructose along with glucose in women and men.
As a hopefully-interesting N=1 regarding fructose use in women (not advising! just sharing as an FYI):
My wife (also mentioned above) typically targets a carb consumption of ~100-130g/hr on the bike for rides over 2 hrs, using a 1.2:1 to 1:1 ratio of glucose:fructose, and avoids GI issues as long as concentration doesn’t exceed about 15% (150g carbs per liter of fluid).
Edit: If you find that this is an inappropriate interjection in this thread, please let me know and I will happily remove the post and refrain from further activity here.
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Thanks for the list of reading material @Dr_Alex_Harrison
What do you think about adaptogens and is your view based on scientific research or extrapolation from physiological mechanisms?
Thanks for your time
You’re welcome.
I’d probably need to go case by case re: adaptogens. Got any you’re specifically thinking of? It’s not particularly my area of expertise. Fair warning!
Examine.com tends to be where I go first on things I don’t know about.
My recommendations on virtually all things will be based exclusively on applied scientific research because there are too many pitfalls in physiology, sport science, and nutrition, that seem physiologically plausible but don’t bear fruit in vivo.
Physiological mechanisms can provide the spark of interest for research, but without multiple double blinded applied studies, I’ll always hesitate to recommend anything specific.
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Examine.com seems like a useful site.
Thanks for the transparency.
It’s so important to examine the evidence presented to us.
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I’m finding it difficult to balance proper fueling for hitting workouts well vs. gaining weight, especially since before I used to restrict quite a bit and reaped the rewards of that behavior (no progression in FTP, headaches and fatigue day in and out)!
Having scrolled through what others eat on a daily basis, however, my portions and food choices seem drastically different, I’ve done my best to incorporate more veggies and fruits into my diet, but while I enjoy things like quinoa salads and tofu/tempeh/seitan, my husband can’t stand them so it’s a struggle to find foods and meals we’ll both eat (especially during the off-season) that won’t be cause for weight gain for me 
Haha, I’m not a fan of quinoa salads either. In fact I’m not a fan of salads full stop. They’re just too cold and too fiddly to feel like a proper meal.
On the one hand I agree, what I used to have as salads was very sad and not satisfying, however incorporating things like decent chunks of cheese or meat, peppers, beets and drizzles of stuff like Bitchin’ Sauce from Costco (https://bitchinsauce.com/) makes them more savory and satisfying (plus throwing them together is a lot easier to me than prepping an actual “meal” haha)!
If I had my way, I’d be eating hummus, random fruits and veggies with whatever meats I felt like prepping that week (In this case I had to make do with premade meat, but the Starkist tuna creations are good in a pinch)!
Looks good! I get a veg box delivery every two weeks and that forces me to get creative
Ooh I used to do that when we had access to the Amish farmers in Lancaster PA! That’s where we were introduced to the awesomeness that is Romanesco (sadly harder to source here in the snowy white north):
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It’s a bit brutal in winter, because they send these giant cabbages and bags of kale week after week. I know it’s good for you but it’s a bit much. I started fermenting some into sauerkraut which worked ok.
Haha I don’t miss the endless cabbages, cauliflower and kohlrabi, those were hard to figure out what to do with! Hearing you make sauerkraut, you sure you’re not from the Midwest? 
With kale, I LOVE making chips to sub for regular chips, just have to make sure they’re dry-ish going in the oven, also low and slow in the oven makes them nice and crisp
That or saute kale with some garlic and red pepper flakes, add a dash of lemon juice off the heat with pasta YASSS (Best Ever Sauteed Kale (Big Flavor!) – A Couple Cooks)
Haha, I’m German, so sauerkraut is kind of home territory. I make a lasagne with kale which is also a good way to mix it up. Fry Italian fennel sausage meat if you can find it (or just sausage and add fennel - take the skin off), add passata and blanched chopped kale and cook for a bit. Season etc. Make a Béchamels sauce with grated Parmesan mixed in and then layer with the kale and lasagne pasta. Put cheese on top and in oven. It’s pretty quick and very delicious.
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Well, I have to say that I find all of the TR statements about fueling to be way more than what I need. I don’t know how old you are… I’ve never been able to eat quite the way they talk, but even more so now that I’m in my mid-40s. (ugh.) I spent about 8 months from July through February working really, really hard to lose some weight, even through my winter lifting regiment where I hit PRs that I haven’t hit in a couple of years. I’m focusing now more on fueling workouts rather than losing. I do focus on veggies and whole foods. My SO has very different fueling needs than me, so what I’ve found works for us is that I will make a protein that we both like, and I’ll provide some sort of carby thing for him (noodles, rice, bread) but I’ll skip that. And then I make a big green salad for us both, which he likes too. Maybe finding some sort of happy medium like that for the two of you might work? @Overratedcarbon something I’ve started doing with my green salads is to put my protein on it, even if it’s really saucy. The sauce acts like the salad dressing, and makes the salad seem less “cold”. Maybe that would work for you? Another idea is roasted or grilled veggies – @vhudacek maybe that’s another option? Or, maybe I don’t know what your specific issue is. What “portions and food choices” of yours are “drastically different” from what most people state?
As a separate comment, I think it’s been stated before, but trying to lose weight while trying to build FTP is really, really hard. When I was lifting, my goal was simply to not gain weight but rather maintain my weight (which I did). Presumably my body composition changed during that whole process, but it’s hard to gauge.
BTW, for fueling on the bike, I’m currently aiming for 100cal of food/hr. I honestly think that my body had forgotten how to burn fat, and I had to go through a whole process to try to get my body to burn fat while riding again. Now, when I eat some sugar on the bike, it’s TOTALLY noticeable. I pay attention and have a far better feel for when I need some fuel on the bike. The whole process has been really hard, but it’s been good for me. But I am definitely NOT following what the TR people talk about.
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I’m still figuring out how to fuel for cycling. In my rowing training I’ve never felt the need to eat during a workout, but the first couple of times bonking on the bike made me realise that it’s very different. I’m also really struggling with fuelling because I have braces with elastics which make it a struggle to even take a gel and certainly not without stopping. I’m going to try Tailwind because that’s fully liquid.