whether you do Vo2Max intervals or SST, you will consume your Aerobic power. A strong foundation of it will not only increase your FTP but it will also help you go faster and farther.
Is it fair to say that the TR polarized programs are in-line with this approach? I would think so…
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Thanks - that’s very helpful.
Thinking I will switch to a TR polarised plan. Only thing is I’m on holiday for 2 weeks (non-cycling) in 2 weeks so no point starting till I get back 
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I tend to disagree, as the traditional polarized approach (Seiler) would do the easy rides at an easier pace than ISM. ISM Zone 2 corresponds to upper Z2 or lower Z3 compared to the “usual zones” and is therefore much harder, than somewhere in the middle of the usual Z2.
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Maybe but for me doing sweetspot also makes threshold seem more manageable (just a few Watts more than the much longer ss interval I did a few days ago…)
Also I and many users have not reached their sweetspot ceiling, for me it still works and sweetspot still is a time effective way to get faster though I get that once I reach the ceiling I probably have to switch to a polarised training with lots of z2
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You’re assuming that 2 workouts of equivalent kj give the same benefit to base fitness? Is that correct? If so, then your point is inarguable
I’ve no expertise, just guessing that the lack of response might be due to people not sharing that assumption?
Is it true? Is kj maximisation (subject to fatigue management) optimal?
Where are you seeing this defined in the ISM model? In the video he only talks about
If I look at the TR plans they have the endurance sessions ranging from 45% up to 80% as you progress.
According to Dr. Coggan:
Obviously sweet spot isn’t specifically called out in this table, but I’m sure we can all agree its adaptations are somewhere between Z3/4. I’d like to see ISM’s version of this table to clearly understand his thinking.
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IDK where it came from but, decades ago and well before the internet many of us were doing long steady blocks pre season for sure. The one thing I’ve missed all these years was the MCT-1 transporter shuttling built up lactate to mitochondria. With z2 increasing mitochondria it’s a win win and I selfishly feel better about droning on so slowly for week after week right now.
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Yes I guess for it not to be true, time spent in SS would need to be more efficient (base adaptations vs time in zone) than Z2. And then by a big enough percentage to overcome the reduced time in zone from doing SS intervals vs one long Z2 interval
For me, SS workouts are higher KJ than Z2 - I’m rating them as Moderate on AT generally, and time is my limiter. Were this not the case, I would swap out SS for Z2 once or twice a week.
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If you were a rat and sedentary you would have to run the following distances per week. For endurance muscles it does not really matter at which intenstiy.
“citrate synthase change” is a surrogate for mitochondrial content change
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Same duration:
Geiger+2: 90 mins SS (PL 6.4), 1092KJ
Brasstown: 90 mins Z2 (PL 5.2), 1008KJ
Not much in it though!
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1hr SS rides in TR (my FTP is set at ~295):
1hr Endurance rides:
SS rides burn a lot more kJs for me.
Edit: Those are the hardest 1hr Z2 rides available to me, but being time crunched, I think it’s fair.
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Doing a 90min ride one day then a 60min ride the next? Maybe we just have different definitions of time crunched.
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I’ve done this with a warmup, then a solid block from 30 min to 3 hrs of zone 2. Prior to hearing about ISM’s “sorta talk” test, the intensity was a little lower. The net result is me being able to tolerate repeated efforts up to 5 min in length 50 to 60 watts above threshold.
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You can find plenty of Sweet Spot workouts in the TR catalog where the amount of kJs/work is roughly the same as what you’d get from an Endurance WO of the same length. However, once you get above PL 5 or so for Sweet Spot, it’s pretty consistent that you’re doing 10-20% more kJs than Endurance.
Given BenB’s examples, if someone could only do three 60 min workouts in a week would it not be to their benefit to choose the SS rides?
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haven’t watched this yet, but does he talk about Zone 2 in terms of % of FTP?
Can we call this the bitter-sweet spot?
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I still don’t believe z2 is anything special physiologically. To get the fastest you could be you need lots and lots of volume and intensity. The volume you can only get if you keep the intensity down for the most part, if you don’t have time for that volume you need to increase the intensity to compensate. You can never compensate volume with intensity completely of course
For now I really enjoy my indoor sweetspot sessions or the feeling I get afterwards so I don’t see them as a waste of time
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kj’s seems only relevant for comparison sake if you’re counting calories.
IF and TSS have been designed to use NP for the recording of training and seems to be a lot more recognised and intuitive. For example, we know we can have a very hard VO2max session that has an Average Power lower than your Z2 numbers, but time in zone and due our own knowledge and sensations, we know that the training stimulus is not the same, or lower due to the lower AP.
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