But don’t you just lower the power until the longer duration can be completed? If someone says to me that their TTE is only 25 minutes then I’d think their FTP should be lower.
OP could give this a try to validate/ set FTP
Hi @CamSam, threshold does feel like hell, sorry to say. 
I feel this too. 
Sweetspot is a nice, slow burn, anaerobic is over before you know it, but threshold, it’s kinda the worst of both. 
Oh… VO2 max, done for the purpose of actually training aerobic uptake, feels like hell too, but in a different way. Funny thing about threshold intervals, my legs hate me at the end of an interval (say I’m doing Warlow), but then after four minutes’ rest I wonder what all the fuss in my head was about.
Also, not all zones’ progression levels are created equal, nor are PLs necessarily equal between workout types within the same zone. I’ve seen others report lower PLs for threshold than for other zones. This has been my experience too. So you have VO2 PL at 4.5, threshold at 2.0. What are your PLs for other zones, & what were your last completed workouts for those zones? Would you be prepared to share a screenshot of the last couple of weeks of your calendar?
And do you caffeinate any of your workouts?
No, FTP is a proxy for a blood marker, MLSS. It isn’t tied to time. If you lower it, you wouldn’t be at it any more.
Studies have showed widely differing TTE at FTP, and the far left side of the distribution in this case was 25 mins IIRC
Where you train and choose to set your training ftp is different though. Depends on your goals and fitness. In this case, I might choose training lower, and/or doing a full sweet spot progression to push TTE out there first before moving to threshold.
40mins is the duration often quoted - but 25mins not unbelievable
TTE is highly dependent on the level of fitness. In this context of FTP, CTL is a valid proxy; a higher CTL enable a longer time to exhaustion. Personally there seems to happen something around CTL 80. Above that level everything seems possible, even riding at threshold…
What is your suggestion when AIFTP is telling me my FTP should be “this number” when I am struggling on those type of workouts? 2x20 and 3x10 are hard and challenging, but doable. At one point I was failing level 2 and 3 threshold workouts and AIFTP was still suggesting a higher FTP. I have since started ignoring AIFTP
I only think it’s maybe a valid proxy if you’re talking about your ability to hold a high percentage of your FTP for many hours.
I don’t think it is when you’re talking about SST and FTP TTE. In fact, I’ve only rarely ever hit 80+ CTL and I’ve still worked through extensive SST and Threshold progressions well below that without issue.
It’s progressive overload and working through the progression to train that type of work.
I didn’t read through this whole thread, but can’t the OP just turn down the threshold workouts a bit to the point where they are able to complete the workout? I see completing the workout as your number one goal from a mental and physical perspective. It sounds like the other zones are fine where the FTP is set.
Coggan actually defined FTP around the 40k TT time - “about an hour”.
Finally get on board with real FTP testing.
I realize Ai ftp detection is seductive and alluring but it’s clearly not fullproof. After you do long form FTP testing (30-40 minute efforts) you learn to feel out your FTP. Once you know the feeling, you can just back off a little on those 10-20 minute intervals. You’ll see the power your producing and if the Ai wants to further bump your FTP, you’ll know it’s not realistic.
I’m only guessing but the Ai must have to raise the FTP too high in order to test the athlete and then see how they answer the survey questions.
Coggan has been on this forum and specifically said FTP = MLSS and everything (and everyone) else is wrong. The whole “About and Hour” is effectively trying to dumb it down for the masses.
Eventually got banned because of the Coggan attitude too.
And he has subsequently said that was probably the wrong measuring stick…multiple times.
Coggan got banned? One of the best podcasts I have ever listened to is his two part conversation with Kolie Moore about his academic and sports physiology history, as well as many aspects of endurance training.
Listening to someone who so transparently wants to be good at something, in this case academic research, above all other considerations is personally very inspiring.
Yeah, the TR team addressed it on a thread here. Warned multiple times, kept breaking forum rules, eventually shown the door.
good news is coggan is hanging around reddit r/velo as grouchy_ad_3113
I completely agree with this statement, which is what I’ve never liked about ‘anchoring’ everything off your supposed FTP. On a bell curve it, it works pretty well for most people - including myself if I’m honest.
I would personally do z2 off HR and RPE, and do VO2 max off RPE. All threshold and SS should be anchored off your FTP, but this needs to be determined from long efforts - ideally 30 min to get a good feel for that steady state.
Really? Does not sound like Coggan at all to me, he is grouchy, argumentative, overly pedantic and generally rude to anyone and everyone.
That is not what Coggan has said. You can go listen to him explain it on ten different podcasts.
FTP is the functional, practical way to define this. 40k TT or about an hour is not dumbed down IMO. It is practical because nobody can do a 40k tt in 25 minutes thus they should be using a lower power for their FTP. That is the “functional” thing to do.
99.9% of people aren’t doing lab tests to determine MLSS anyway so I really don’t know how an athlete gets to the point of saying they only have a 25 minute TTE other than a ramp test or Ai detection told them so.
We are talking about people that are struggling with 3x10 or even a single 10 minute interval. Nobody should struggle with 3x10.
Lol