Forgive me if I missed something but what is the style you are seeing? I just see him willing to go down the steeps fast. For the most part there isn’t any movement in his hips other than going with the direction of the bike. I’m not doubting his ability to get down the hill quickly so this isn’t me hating on the guy he’s clearly going fast.
I didn’t watch every second of it so forgive me if I’m missing something, just curious.
Sorry I didn’t mean to imply that he’s using those skills in that video, it was just the best example I could find of someone with those skills cornering
To me it looked like he was descending like anyone else would, but I posted it in case someone really looking into this might see something different.
Shameless opportunity to post motorcycle photos lol.
Basically I think what @hugo1 mentioned above is 100% spot on.
I think on the road when you lean your upper body into the corner you can actually carry less lean angle on the bike but make the same corner. So for a given lean angle, you can actually go faster if you get your body weight more on the inside. Also generally, even if it doesn’t look like it, there’s actually probably very little weight on the saddle in the corner. Just on a mtb with a dropper it’s far more obvious that the saddle is unweighted. In the photo above, almost 100% of my weight is on the inside peg with almost no contact on the saddle of the bike. On the road bike it’s very similar expect you use the outside pedal (for obvious reasons). The other thing is on the bicycle you can’t exactly hang off like how you do on a motorcycle, but you can definitely get into the drops and then lean your upper body into the corner instead of going into it crossed up.
Here’s an example of a dirt bike taking a corner… you can see here that it’s very similar to a mtb. Where as my street bike is much more similar to a road bike.
Tell that to Ilnur Zakarin. 
He’s 6’2”. He needs a dropper. I think us shorter people don’t realize the benefit we have descending vs taller people.
Learning the roadie/motorcycle turn will win you a race. Coming off of MTB and CX to try Crits, I turned like I was on dirt, and it felt awkward but I didn’t know better. Then my team did a clinic on road cornering they taught the “motorcycle way” as discussed above. It was a massive game changer for my racing! Now I corner better than anyone in my league-at least thats what I tell myself- free speed! I won my first crit this year by breaking away with 2 turns left to go. Strava showed my top speed was coming out of the last downhill corner-41mph.
Only thing not emphasized enough in the discussion above- you try to keep the bike upright, but you also push very hard on the inside handlebar. Weight on the front wheel seems to change it from a speed-loser to a speed-gainer. Get your chest very low and forward, diving into the turn, all while keeping the bike upright. Bonus points if you get out of the saddle to separate from the bike and put more weight forward.
Also, by keeping the bike more upright you can pedal earlier when coming out of the turn.
That’s called counter-steering. It’s the only way to turn a bike effectively. Most people do it unconsciously by using their hips, eyes feet or whatever, but if you counter-steer consciously you’ll steer with much more precision and speed.
On a heavy motorcycle at high speed you need to twist the bars, meaning pulling with the outer hand and not only pushing with the inner. Since this has become intuitive for me, I do it also on a light road bike.
I’ve never met anyone in my region that’s faster than me in corners. Nor safer. I never understeer into the oncoming lane or a ditch, and even in practice races I have to slow down because of people with poor technique and their sudden “oh shit” moments mid corner.
If they only had a smaller ego they might be willing to learn something.
(Also, I run 28c at 70 psi, which helps with grip.)
So you lean more than the bike leans?
Watching videos it looks like the bike has more lean than the rider but it’s difficult to tell
Yes- the picture of the cyclist in the original post is not really the best example, but the author was right to notice the difference. The goal is the keep the contact patch as upright as possible. If you watch this video, when the the riders turn to the right the center of their chest is to the right of their stem. The outside foot is down to avoid pedal strikes , but the rest of their body weight is to the inside of the turn vs. their bike. And above all, you can see them “dive” or push low and forward over the front wheel when they begin the turn.
I agree on the wider tires and lower pressure, too- I went from some shallow and narrow Eastons to wider and deeper dished HEDs. Deep dish wheels cooperate MUCH better when the “motorcycle” kind of turning is used vs. the “MTB” turn.
We must be watching different videos. I’m only a minute in to the video and the 2 corners you see Sagan take (left handers admittedly, I’m not sure why you stipulated only right handers) he does the opposite of what you suggest.
Here’s a very crude screenshot of the 2nd corner you see him take.
If you draw a straight line up the bike (following the front wheel for example) you can clearly see that the centre of his chest and head are actually on the outside of the corner. This is essentially just a much more subtle version of what MTB and cyclocross riders do, which is moving the bike underneath them in order to keep their centre of mass as central over the BB as possible.
And here’s a screenshot from that video of cancellera. He only stays like this for a split second but it’s at the sharpest point of the corner.
Hmm- fair point. Sagan was a dirt guy, but I certainly wouldn’t second guess his bike handling. It’s possible Cancellara felt some gravel and switched tactics for that moment. Here are images of what I’m talking about: low, forward, with the center of gravity on the inside of the corner vs. bike.
I think its possible that youre misinterpreting those images that you posted.
I think they, like the pictures i posted, show the riders body slightly shifted to the OUTSIDE of the corner. Look at the angle of their shoulders compared to the rear wheel. Or open the images in microsoft paint, and draw a straight line up through the rear wheel and to the riders head. You will find their upper body is more to the outside of that line than the inside. Maybe their inside knee sticking out is misleading you
EDIT - Done them for you
Second one is harder to see because of the camera angle but still clear that theres more rider weight on the outside of the corner
Stand up and mimic Nibali’s knee position- lift your right foot to knee height and rotate your right knee outward to the right. You’re center of gravity just shifted significantly to the right.
The distance of the inside leg from the bike frame is very important in both of these pictures. For Nibali, he separates the inside leg from the bike.
For the mountain biker, he separates the outside leg from the bike. His inside leg is touching the seat.
I’m telling you, I was skeptical and then I learned it and it changed everything. Here’s me doing it. This was my first race trying the technique and it was my first-ever podium (2nd).
I don’t agree with those lines. You can see that the rider’s shoulders are not squarely weighted above his hands. The inside hand has much more weight over it than the outside hand. The shoulders are shifted toward the inside of the turn (as well as the inside leg). The outside leg is touching the frame and outside hand is not carrying as much weight.
the lines I drew are just through the seat tube? I agree though, it’s tricky to work out how the upper half of his body is contributing.
Whenever you guys come to a consensus on this please let me know.
Yep, except that’s not what the riders are doing. You’re ignoring the fact that the whole upper body and head are moved to the outside of the corner.
I’m not telling you how you corner. If it works for you then that’s great. I’m just saying that your examples arent showing what you think they are showing.
I really don’t think adding motorbikes in to this equation is helpful. There’s enough difference between cycling and motorbikes for them to need their own approach. If you want to learn how to corner, watch good cyclists, not good moto gp riders.
Assuming the weighting of his hands is one thing, but that’s very different to not agreeing the with the lines. The lines are the lines,
The shoulders aren’t shifted to the inside of the corner at all. The line clearly shows that the upper spine is on the outside of the corner. And if you drew a straight line from the riders belly button to head, you would see a line that is much closer to vertical than the bike
Ok great, let’s stick to comparing those two then!
