well you didn’t exactly follow the protocol so both eFTP and TTE are likely floors. One of the goals of the protocol is to get people out on the road and learning what it feels like to ride around FTP. So if you do it inside again, be sure and take it out of erg and just use TrainerRoad to show you the target. Don’t be focused too much on hitting an exact target, learn to pay attention to how it feels if that is something you’ve never done before.
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Recently revised? Looks like it’s a little different but I didn’t look very close a couple of weeks ago.
Revised = TR workout created by a member of a group.
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I did indoor ramp test today and my suggested FTP was 209, which is about same as my last ramp test in July of 210. I went as hard as possible to the point of nausea at the end. Based on my NP of 214 on long ride and the truncated Kolie Moore test of 221 ten days ago, this adds fuel to my belief that ramp test does not accurately assess FTP for over 60 cyclists. Based on my actual power on long rides, I am certain that my FTP is at least 221. And I know of at least one other over 60 cyclist who left TR because ramp tests showed no improvement. I plan to write TR customer support with details and ask if they can get Chad or Nate to chime in. Granted, the ramp test is one alternative and designed to be time efficient, but maybe it should come with disclosure that it may not be accurate for masters cyclists.
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FWIW my wild guess / hypothesis is that its related to FTP as % vo2max. When I lose my top-end, FTP often climbs above 88% of vo2max. Thats when I start seeing unpredictable and weird ramp test results. While that may impact more older cyclists, it can happen to younger cyclists too.
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I understand your point but you are but one example. I dont dispute what you say as I myself have not had my FTP increase but can definitely ride longer and harder at age 60 then I could at age 57-59 with my now current lower FTP per the ramp test. The one problem here is TR hasnt focused on older athletes. They have the data that would help in assessing this but we are not privy to it.
Chads comments in the past have indicated older rides do well if they just maintain their FTP. I do wonder if this is in part from the data and a test that may not lend itself well to those who are older.
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I tried an outside Kolie Moore test today to assess against current FTP of 221 based on earlier indoor KM test. After warm up, I did three blocks: 11 min @ 210; 15:25 @ 232; and 15:04 at 248. I didn’t hit TTE (needed to save something for MTB ride with son this afternoon) but I was getting close. For that three block effort, my NP was 237, which is good bump from 221. Should you use NP or avg of 231? Further evidence in support of my theory to write Coach Chad and crew. Log In to TrainerRoad
Yep, my only real gripe with TR, which I otherwise love. A few in the forum have said, well, it’s their data (i.e. property), so we’re just whining. Nah. Lawyers aside, we created the data, not TR – and by our sweat, literally, not theirs. Also, they know how old we are, but we don’t (unless we go out of our way to inform each other on the forum), so even our own attempts to help ourselves as a group are basically anecdotal. Sorry for the grump. Over a week of no riding, socked in by smoke. Finally lifted, and that’s good. Out I go, for a better mood.
Thought it was average power?
I think that’s what I read. I will go back and confirm. Probably a good idea to keep it avg. anyway to see if can do workouts based on increased targets!
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I’m curious if you are trying to hold a target cadence while doing the ramp test, or just spinning at what feels right when you do the ramp test?
When I watch the TrainerRoad team doing their ramp tests on YouTube, they are all spinning at 90-100+ rpm, but then they’re younger than me ;-). That is just too high for me. I am almost 61 years old and what works best for me is to just spin at what “feels right to me” so that I don’t burn up from hitting my max HR before my legs actually give out.
I also don’t worry too much about hitting the cadence targets in the workouts either if I feel they are just too high for me, and that made a big difference in my ability to complete the workouts. Before, I was always maxing out on HR and blowing up. But, since I changed to spinning at my own cadence I haven’t failed one workout yet, and I just bumped up 20w on the last ramp test.
What do other think about this? Am I missing something?
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Just my N=1, but at 66, I comfortably do a zone 2 ride with a cadence over 100. Like you, I pretty much ignore the cadence recommendations. I up the cadence for things like over/unders and VO2 intervals.
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I like the 90s now but it took a while of learning to spin faster from my prior comfort zone in the 70s. I now find it easier to make power above FTP with cadence up so it’s more aerobic taxing than muscular taxing.
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I agree with DocSavage’s response. I strive for high cadence as it’s less taxing, but I don’t push it beyond what feels fast-ish. On the TR Ramp Test, by the end I’m grinding out and reduced to a slow cadence. And see my other posts that, at least for me, the Ramp Test results in an FTP that is 20 watts lower than the Kolie Moore method.
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I find I can spin a high cadence ,as long as it’s in my comfort zone. As soon as the watts I need to ride at are threshold and above ,I can’t maintain the power when spinning, but I can if I drop to 60-70 cadence. And my HR is a bit lower too.
The snag with this is, if I have do do, for example , 8-12 reps of 2 minutes Vo2 , after about 5 my legs feel solid, and can’t get the power. I like that feeling of pushing the pedals, and it comes more naturally to me. I’m very good at riding through mud! Maybe that’s why. PS I’m 64 ,so there is relevance to this topic
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When I first started with TR my cadence was 70-75. I have slowly raised it to 90-95, normally around 93. This is much easier on the legs. During ramp test I aim to maintain my normal 93 and find it creeps up towards a 100 before I collapse in a huge mess 
.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone! I see there is a lot of common ground. I should have also mentioned that for short VO2Max efforts, I still spin faster (100+) because it’s easier to stay on top of the effort. And, for light effort (zone 2 or recovery), what feels right to me is 90-100. But, for those longer sustained sweet spot or threshold efforts where the cadence targets are usually 85-95, I am spinning slower (75-85) because that feels right to me. So, basically I am using cadence as a way to manage my HR better and avoid blowing up too quickly. I figure that as long as I’m putting out the target power, then it shouldn’t matter too much what the cadence is. In general, I think TR is (currently) tuned for younger riders, especially on the cadence front, but then I did see that Nate said they are working on some new things for older cyclists so I’m really looking forward to that. Regardless, I’m already a big fan of their structured training and I definitely feel I have improved.
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Over 60 Race Report and Lessons Learned. Finally got to do an actual gravel race this year. The Dead Swede 60 mile course in Sheridan WY. Short answer 17th of 71 finishers and 2nd in the Over 60s. A few lessons learned. From looking at my power numbers I need to be more comfortable in Sweet Spot outdoors. I set my mind on staying below 200 watts (ftp 231) on flats and downhill and do what needs to be done in the climbs. Next, without races I didn’t have that fire in my belly to go out and hurt. I did PR every segment on the final 20 miles of the course but couldn’t have done better early. Finally, double check ALL your equipment before you leave home. Getting my kit on race morning and it just felt wrong, took it off and put it back on, still wrong. My wife looks over and says “ Those are my bibs!” So me who wears a men’s large wore a women’s small bib for 4 hours. Not a good answer but the only option other than no bib. Guess I’ll have to order her a new pair this week. Bottom line my 9 months on TR worked. I rode better than the two previous years and wasn’t trashed when I finished. November I’ll start a new plan and hopefully we’ll be racing in 2021.
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