Hi,
I am training to do the Vermont Grand Fondo this year. Here are some stats about the ride:
distance: 109 miles
climbing: 10,500 feet over 4 significant gaps (10-15% average and grades up to 25%)
gravel surface (hardpack dirt road conditions): 27 miles (remainder paved)
I ride a Serotta road bike (Ti frame) and usually ride Continental Grand Prix 5000 tires (clinchers). I can only run 25 mm in the rear (clearance) and run a 28 up front.
Seeing that this is a unique ride profile, including tons of significant climbing, yet also including a significant amount of hardpacked dirt road I am wondering what tires to run? Based on all the climbing I would prefer something somewhat light (fast rolling) yet would like something with a bit of extra grip for the dirt. I realize it is greedy to expect the best of all worlds, but figured there has to be a good compromise tire that may check these marks reasonably well. So I want something super light weight, that rolls with the fastest race tires, with crazy grip on all surfaces, and incredible durability to handle all road surfaces
my searches were popping possibilities such as:
Specialized Roubaix Pro
Vittorio Rubino Pro Control
Continental 4 season
Im in the area. I would rather be on something like 30ās. But you will be perfectly fine on most road tires. I would go for durability so you could run slightly lower pressure. But thats just me. Most the steep stuff is paved on that route, so grip wont be a huge concern. Everyones ridden D2R2 on road tires over the years, and that generally has a lot more steep dirt roads than this (if the routes are similar to the old ones).
@BTTG@ZDW1995@scurran Iām so glad I found this thread! Iām registered for the VTGF, and would love to make my existing Ti bike work.
I too have an āold-schoolā set up, and the main issues Iām trying to solve are gearing and tire width.
Gearing
My stupid short cage rear derailleur canāt take more than a 28 tooth ring on the back. I think it wonāt be hard to remedy that with a new derailleur, but Iām still stuck on the tire question.
Tires
I have Ultegra caliper rim brakes that can handle 28mm tires and maybe could take 30s, but itād be tight, and with relatively narrow rims, the profile of the tire will be pretty ālightbulb-shaped.ā
It sounds like from your comments that I might actually be okay. I was prepared to upgrade to a whole new bike with all the fancy new things ā carbon frame, tubeless tires on wide carbon rims, 105 Di2, blah blah blah ā but I am very attached to my titanium frame.
Any help or confirmation you can provide on tire selection would be greatly appreciated! Trying to have it all sorted out in the next few weeks, because if I do need to pursue a new bike, time is of the essence!
With the steep pitches, youāre going to want more tire. You might end up walking them either way.
Iād also worry about washboard on the dirt roads, but youād need MTB size tires to deal with that. Riding on Michigan groomed dirt roads, 28c tires were fine, but I stopped and cried after hitting a washboard on a short downhill on 40c tires. Potholes filled with soft material are another area where a bigger tire will shine.
Any regular road tire should be fine, but Iād definitely go tubeless for the lower pressures and to prevent pinchflats. Just use your GP5K, the other tires wonāt do anything for you.
Yo! Glad you found it too. Stoked to hear youāll be doing the VTGF!
28t cassette in the rear is doable, but if you can swap the cage or the whole derailleur for long cage, 32 (or even 34 these days) is preferable for the climbs on the course. There are some steep pitches and being able to hold a comfortable cadence definitely helps out!
28mm tires will be okay for you ā Iāve ridden all those roads on 25-28mm (even 23mm at one point!) without any trouble. Vermont dirt roads are actually quite smooth and often better than paved roads in some parts. Washboarding isnāt super common, and when there is washboarding, itās usually not that bad. If you could go tubeless, I do think it would be worth it, but that is more for the benefit of sealant in case you get a puncture. For what itās worth, Iāve ridden those roads on 28s (both tubed and tubeless) at about 60psi front and 70psi rear at ~150 lbs. No trouble with flats running tires such as the GP5000/equivalent either. Just keep your eyes peeled for potholes and youāll be fine!
TLDR: your current bike definitely sounds capable, but if you do want a new bikeā¦ Donāt let me stop you!
I agree with ZDW1995. Last year I rode the VTGF on my titanium framed road bike with narrowish alloy wheels (23 mm external width) on Vittoria Corsa Control tires (28 front 25 rear). The offroad sections have minimal washboard and are surprisingly smooth for the most part. As said the major issue is keeping your eyes open for potholes. If I did it again I would ride my normal tires (Continental GP 5000s) as I felt I lost more being on the corsa control on the 75% of the course that is paved than I gained on the 25% of the course that is dirt. That said if you want to be safe you donāt need anything more than the corsa control and 25-28 is fine. As for gearing my lowest gear was 34 front 32 rear. I wish i had a 34 rear. I rode all the climbs without walking but MANY were walking Lincoln Gap including folks in front of me and I was in the front 25% of riders so these were legit riders that were walking. I had to paperboy the last few hundred yards to stay on the bike. takes a sustained 275 watts to get over Lincoln (165 pound rider). I was completely redlined for the last 15 minutes or so of that climb. My FTP was about 250 at the time. I donāt think I would of made it with a 28 tooth rear cassette personally. This year sounds like lincoln is the last climb, which makes bailout gearing even more important.
Yep, as another Vermonter - havenāt done the Gran Fondo but have ridden pretty much the entire route a bunch and Iād agree with everyone else. I wouldnāt worry too much about tires. 30c would be great, 28cās fine, too.
That said, Iād echo other folks about the gearing, as well. These climbs really are quite steep and your legs will thank you at the start of your third gap if you can get a bigger cassette in there.
I havenāt ridden the Fondo but I have done all the gaps; the only stretches of road I havenāt done are the dirt roads from Sugarbush to Lincoln Gap Road and from Lincoln to Ripton. I rode a Pinarello Dogma F10 with a 50/34 up front and 11/30 in back and Conti GP5000s at 25 mm. From a gearing perspective, it all depends on your FTP. The course is kind and puts Lincoln as the second gap. I was carrying a 340W FTP (~4.4-4.5 W/kg) at the time and did Lincoln 4th with 70-75 miles in the legs already. I got up just fine without having to swerve or walk. One thing thatās āniceā about the climb is the steepest parts are punctuated with just barely less steep parts.
Tire-wise, I was fine descending Lincoln, though it was a bit hairy at times. I was running 90ish PSI with butyl tubes. I did not flat. Plenty of cyclists ride these gaps every year on whatever road bike they have.
@jfranci3@ZDW1995@BTTG@FergusYL@The_Conductor Thank you all for your feedback! After a few weeks of silence, I decided to purchase a new Giant TCR with 34:34 ascending gear ratio. It can take 32 mm tubeless tires.
Iām not ditching my old-school-cool titanium bike with mechanical shifting and max 28 mm tires. Iāll hopefully still take it out for longer, less steep, all-pavement stuffā¦ at least thatās what I tell myself.
Now onto tire selection. The new TCR came with 25 mm tires, but Iāll probably put on 28mm or 30mm Conti GP5000 S TR (tubeless hookless).
@mattclarke and contributors, thank you for this thread. Iāll be there. As for tires, I just clicked ābuyā on GP 5000 S TR 30ās. Iāve been riding Veloflex Corsa Race TLRs which only come in 25s. Iāve had a great experience with those tires, but alas they donāt come wider. Theyāre fine for the occasional stretch of dirt road, but not what Iād want to be piloting for ~27 miles of dirt roads.
So, it sure looks like rain! Iāll be running the same tires, Conti GP5k S TRs! Just mounted them two days ago. Iāll be grateful for the 30mm width descending on wet roads! And for traction up Lincoln Gap.
Anyone have any nuggets of wisdom for a rainy day when you get to ride 112 miles w/ 9k feet of clmbing??
This is my A event this year and Iām currently at 3.5 w/kg. Iād love to lose a bit of weight but donāt want to bank on that. For folks whoāve done the route with a similar w/kg, what gearing would you recommend?
Iām running 11 speed Ultegra Di2 with 50/34 chain rings and an 11-32 cassette. Iāve used up to an 11-40 on there in the past (when I was 35-40 lbs heavier) but donāt know if thatās overkill
Since I last wrote in this thread, I have incidentally ridden every mile of the course. The business end of things is of course Lincoln Gap. They spare you the initial climb out of Warren, which is kind. Here is the segment in question:
2022: Pinarello Dogma F10 (7 kg) on GP5000 in 25 with my lowest gear as 34/30. Same 76-77 kg.
When I did it last year with 36/30, I was craving anything easier. I had to do 5.1 W/kg for 11 minutes to get upā¦I probably couldāve gone a little easier, but not muchāmy cadence was low 60s as it was. The only description I wrote on Strava that day was āa 34t chain ring wouldāve been nice.ā Itās hard to imagine a faster setup than what I had for my bike + tires, and Iād assume youāll run a slightly slower tire given the dirt sections. All of that is to say, Iād go with the 11-40.
Thank you for this! Itās informative and terrifying at the same time
Iād planned to use my road bike since it seems the consensus is road tires would be OK for the gravel sections. 34/40 on the road bike would get me a ratio of 0.85. My gravel bike is running Tufo Thundero 700x48 with a 38T chainring and Eagle cassette. I almost wonder if I should bring that bike for the 0.76 low gear
Iām from Vermont originally and I can tell you that Lincoln Gap is a doozy for sure!!
Whenever Iāve ridden up it, itās been on a 36x32 and my cadence was LOWWWWWW with that gearing.
Easier gearing is definitely nice for that climb. Iād just keep in mind how fast you think youād be riding for the rest of the course as well ā Iād worry about spinning out on the flatter sections of the route if I had a 38T chainring.
Go road bike with the bailout gear. The Thunderos will be too much for that climb. The Ripton Road section would definitely be more fun on a gravel rig, but it isnāt a necessity.
A quick check on www.bikecalculator.com seems to indicate that segment could be a 20 min high SS effort at 60 RPM in 34x40. I see lots of sweetspot in my future (good thing i got through 3x30 over the weekend).
Doing the 145mi anniversary edition this June ; Iāve ridden the 109mi version twice before and this year will be glad to be on my new Aethos with 34x36 and 32mm GP5000. Itās a fantastic, challenging, beautiful ride
