V shaped phenotype

[casantos]

Hello guys,

So, i always thought of my self as an anaerobic guy. I was surprised to find that my 1m power is actually lower than it should be comparing to the rest of the other durations.

I made calculations and fit them according to the table in “Traning + racing witht a power meter” book. Actually there is a page talking about that here: https://www.velopress.com/defining-your-phenotype-for-power-profile-charts/

That page/book says:

On the other hand, the sharp V pattern is a relatively unlikely combination, given the expected inverse relationship between neuromuscular power and lactate threshold and the positive relationship expected between VO2 max and lactate threshold. If you find your power data reflects such a pattern, take care to ensure that the values are truly representative of your abilities.

Blockquote

According to that quote, there is something wrong with my measures, but they’re all relatively recent. Same bike, same power meter. Made outdoors. In fact, i think my 5sec power can be higher if i actually train it.

I’m a heavy gym guy, so that maybe explains it?

Measures:
96KGs

5s
1267w
13w/kg

1m
530w
5.52w/kg

5m
329w
3.42w/kg

FTP
240w
2.5w/kg

So, that means i should be doing the anaerobic workouts frequently? 1 and 2 minutes intervals? Just did one yesterday, so damn bloody hard…

Any pointers and enlightenments about why this happens would be greatly appreciated.

[AJS914]

Are you saying that when you graph your numbers it’s the inverted V shape (pursuiter)?

Without seeing the graph, your numbers look similar to mine. Your 5sec, 1min, 5min are a little bit higher than mine and we have around the same FTP. WKO5 software calls me a “sprinter”.

@casantos

So, that means i should be doing the anaerobic workouts frequently?

Probably not. What kind of rider do you want to be? What events are you training for? You already have good anaerobic abilities. Do you need them to be stronger?

Try these topics for some good tips for anaerobic riders:

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[mwglow15]

Here’s a pic of the traditional power chart with different the different categories bracketed. You’re numbers are in red and, just for curiosity and comparison, my numbers from the last 12 weeks are in blue. Mine have almost exactly the same distribution as yours. For me, I think this is because I rarely (almost never) do a full on 1 min all out effort when I’m fresh. My 1min PR is from a fast group ride after 1 hr of endurance and 1 hour of the group ride with sprints and attacks.

So, I would first consider if you are actually comparing apples to apples with all fresh and truly all out efforts. Second, it’s interesting to me that he says that that distribution is that unlikely because the 1min effort is the only on that is really measuring your anaerobic capabilities (though it is also highly aerobic). So if you have a good aerobic but terrible anaerobic then you would end up with a low 1 min but a higher 5min and FTP.

Also, in his examples the difference between the levels of the different durations are a bit larger than yours so I guess it’s up for interpretation if you are a ‘sharp’ V or just a V.

Also, @AJS914 makes a good point.

@casantos

So, that means i should be doing the anaerobic workouts frequently?

@AJS914

Probably not. What kind of rider do you want to be? What events are you training for? You already have good anaerobic abilities. Do you need them to be stronger?

Being aerobically fitter will always make you a better ride while the anaerobic improvements will make you better in specific situations/events. Unless you are doing short track events then I wouldn’t worry about it to the point where you would change your training too much. Unless you think it could be fun!

@casantos

Just did one yesterday, so damn bloody hard…

Yeah, they suck. Like really hard. Since it’s near that crossover from anaerobic to aerobic they just hurt everything. It’s like a 5min VO2 interval but your legs burn much more.

[casantos]

@AJS914

re you saying that when you graph your numbers it’s the inverted V shape (pursuiter)?

Without seeing the graph, your numbers look similar to mine. Your 5sec, 1min, 5min are a little bit higher than mine and we have around the same FTP. WKO5 software calls me a “sprinter”.

Normal V, yeah see mwglow15’s graph bellow.

@AJS914

Probably not. What kind of rider do you want to be? What events are you training for? You already have good anaerobic abilities. Do you need them to be stronger?

Well, i want to hang with the group and avoid being dropped on fast short hills and recover fast as possible. I know that with this weight i don’t stand a chance on longer hills.

@AJS914

Try these topics for some good tips for anaerobic riders:

Will check them out, thanks.

@mwglow15

For me, I think this is because I rarely (almost never) do a full on 1 min all out effort when I’m fresh.

Yep! Amazing how values change when after the “freshness” is gone! I felt it on the 2m intervals session i did days ago. Couldn’t even finish the 3rd interval at the same wattage as the previous 2 ones.

@mwglow15

So, I would first consider if you are actually comparing apples to apples with all fresh and truly all out efforts.

This make sense yes. But i don’t think i can make a 600w minute like the book’s table says i should be doing to be in the same level as my other values.

Your graph looks so similar!

@mwglow15

Being aerobically fitter will always make you a better ride while the anaerobic improvements will make you better in specific situations/events. Unless you are doing short track events then I wouldn’t worry about it to the point where you would change your training too much. Unless you think it could be fun!

Well, i did the AC-W3 workout in the book. 2m and 1m intervals. I liked a lot the part where it says “The goal of this workout is to improve your ability to go hard and recover quickly”. When there is a surge, i can hold, but then my legs get toasted for the remainder of the ride.

You know what, there is only one way to see if i need these short intervals or not. Lets see what happens.