What about diet, fuelling and other life stress? Could you gain by losing a bit of weight? Is your group ride too hard?
As you/Chad mentioned you’ve had a lot on your plate etc. Stressors could easily counter your fitness etc.
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I’ll ask a question that i didn’t see addressed yet. Have you taken a good look at your fit on the bike?
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It’s a good possibility that you are indeed at the wrong end of the bell curve… your relative strong anaerobic performance often is an indicator of a worse aerobic engine. Changing that is very hard and takes very long (if possible at all).
The fact you enjoy cycling this much is also surprising… In most cases people enjoy the things more that they are naturally good at 
for example, you don’t get big and broad from playing rugby, you stay and enjoy rugby when you are big and broad… if you’re not, you will suck and don’t like it and do another sport.
Maybe you could try something like track sprinting, maybe that will suit you better…?
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Diet could always use some work, but I generally eat nutritious foods in all my meals; snacking is my downfall :P. Fueling is usually between 90-100g/hr so on point for me.
The most weight I lost, without sacrificing power, was dropping from 230lbs down to 205lbs over the course of a year; at that point my bodyfat percentage was 15% according to DXA scan. However, it was untenable as I was tired and hungry all the time despite a very conservative weight loss approach (half a pound/week).
Life stress is probably the biggest factor here. With a stressful job, big family and lots of small kids, I’m constantly wigging out and have regular anxiety attacks.
Good question. My bike fit is good at the moment with the exception of my shoes, I’m still dealing with a bit of toe numbness and arch soreness.
I did get bike fitted three separate times by supposedly reputable fitters, I know this isn’t everyone’s experience but the fits were terrible and basically were attempts to upsell me on everything from handlebars to a full on bike. A word of caution for people looking into bike fits: If the fitter starts commenting on how asymmetrical and unbalanced your body is, take their advice with a grain of salt and don’t buy anything from the fitter. Everyone is asymmetrical and unbalanced but your body will almost always be able to compensate for the issue without problems.
Ultimately the issue was crank length, 155mm cranks and a few adjustments on the saddle position fixed virtually everything.
Yes I’ve been told by other cyclists to go into track cycling because of my size, but I love riding and racing on the road. Maybe I’ll get back into crits whenever they start in my area again.
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I would bet that you could do a lot better at conserving energy. It’s way, way more complicated than staying out of the wind (and I’d bet you’re not even doing that very well). There’s way more energy spent on accelerations than aero if you’re in a group. And even aero still varies widely based on being on the side of the group versus the center.
I say this as someone who’s 85kg, 6’ 1” and with an FTP of 196W (2.3 W/kg). I can keep up with the B group of the largest ride in the Detroit area with riding to conserve energy. And that was mid summer when the group is fastest.
Yet when I was younger and fitter (3.2 W/kg), I often struggled to keep up with the group for the whole ride, especially the hills. Why? I wasn’t good at conserving energy, in fact, I was throwing it away and tiring myself out.
Do the group ride. Use your lap button every time you get dropped and again any time you catch back on. Get somebody on the group ride that didn’t get dropped to give you their file for that same ride. You want the file from a rider that is a good example, so older, smoother riders are what you want, not someone really fit that can just use raw watts to make up for bad technique.
Put both files into DC Rainmaker’s analysis tool and compare the two files. Doesn’t matter if the other rider have a higher W/kg than you because you are going to look at the shape of their power and speed traces compared to yours (for the parts of the ride where you were with the group).
I bet your power and speed are very spiky compared to the other rider. That means you’re working way harder than necessary in the flats, so once you hit the hills / sprints you’re not able to put out nearly the power that your power curve showed you being capable of.
I challenge you to do this. You think it’s all fitness issues but I’m telling you from experience: staying with the group is requires much more than fitness. Technique matters a ton. Prove that this isn’t a big part of your issue instead of butting your head against the wall.
I’m not going to bother spelling out how to improve your technique here, that’s best saved for another thread.
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That’s a big red flag. Your body can only deal with so much stress regardless of the source of that stress. Mental stress, especially when it leads to anxiety, affects your nervous system which regulates your entire body. These attacks affect your body as if you’re overtraining except you’re getting zero exercise.
So it’s hurting your fitness regardless of any actual training you do. In fact, any training is further piling onto that stress.
Do whatever you need to do to lower mental stress. You should only be riding for fun and healthy in your situation, IMO. I wouldn’t even be looking at power numbers. Put your GPS in your pocket or don’t even use it. Ride for fun and work on living a happier life. When the anxiety is gone, then you can come back to training.
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Thank you and well put, but I’ll argue that just sitting in on a ride isn’t the same as being relevant. I can sit midpack on the B-group ride without issue (except the 5 minute climb), but to me that’s not being relevant in the ride. The joy I get from cycling is where I am rotating on the front and/or pushing the pace; ultimately this seems like an endurance issue more than a technique issue.
That said you’re absolutely right. I haven’t gone to the extent of doing a comparison on DCRA , but out of frustration I’ve checked out the Strava ride files of some of the top riders in the B group. I don’t know if it’s a terrible CdA because I’m still down in the drops with elbows at 90º, but on sections where I’m rotating or in the wind for sure, my power is anywhere between 200% to 400% more than the guys who are in my draft; when they’re in the wind, my power is close to 100% of the power they’re doing. So if I want to be relevant in the ride, I need to have more fitness is what it seems like to me.
Don’t forget that people lie about their FTP. On the TR charts, notice the bumps at the even numbers like 250 and 300. 285 watt people call it 300 because it looks better!
I’ve been squarely an average to slightly above average athlete my whole life. I could get top 10s due to being able to put in the work but I was never that podium every week guy.
Right now, I’m about in your position power wise. Gained 15 pounds during the first two years of covid but was able to hit an all-time high of 250 watts. If I lost all my covid weight and hit 250 again, I’d be at 2.9 watt/kg.
It sounds sad when you read about all the youngsters getting to 4 watts/kg in one season but I’m 56. I raced 30 years ago and have times for a 1 hour mountain climb we used to do frequently so I was able to model my FTP from back then. In my prime, I was at best 4 watts/kg. I could almost always finish top 20 in a big crit but I only hit the podium a few times.
I had a lot of fun but was simply never super gifted aerobically.
I used to laugh at the old geezer clubs that just cruised along. I’m almost ready to join them. I’m kind of done with the hard hitting group rides where I’m trying to hang with 20 year olds.
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Blast, I was hoping you wouldn’t say that, even though I’ve listened to enough Huberman, Attia, and TrainerRoad podcasts to know it’s probably true. What if going hard in a ride is my stress relief? Prior to cycling, powerlifting and martial arts helped me to get into that mental headspace of tearing stress into pieces. I found that in cycling to an even greater degree, but only when I’m going hard and “helping” the group.
This is a huge reason, do not underestimate other stresses.
I had a great 2019-2022 and hit 4.7 W/Kg, I never (almost 
) missed a ride, was able to push through when it got tough, the more I did and pushed the fitter I got. Looking back I had very little or no other life stress.
12 months ago life got busy and stressful (mainly job) and everything changed, lack of motivation to train, just picking easy rides, couldn’t push and I’m now 3.7 W/Kg with my 2023 A race in 4 weeks 
Don’t beat yourself up, you and your body can only accept a certain amount of total stress. Remember we mainly do this out of choice and for enjoyment 
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Do you listen to the Empirical Cycling podcast? If I’m remembering correctly Kollie’s FTP is around 200 and his sprint is something like 1400 watts. You might be in the same boat. Lots of sprint power, not so much FTP.
This isn’t an indictment of you as a person, and don’t let anyone tell you differently
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Yeah I listen to Kolie and Kyle on the regular, I recall him saying that his highest FTP was around 260/270 watts. I know I’m more of an anaerobic athlete than aerobic, it’s just that the cycling I want to do doesn’t match the cycling I’m probably good at.
One thing I think I’m figuring out as an older cyclist is that the typical schedule of 2-3 workouts with intensity and a group ride (or two) is way too much intensity to recovery from week after week.
I’m experimenting with doing a hard workout every 3 to 5 days. I’m going by how sore my legs are walking up the stairs in my house. If my legs are not recovered 90% I won’t do another workout with intervals until they feel ready to go. Everything else in between is easy zone 2.
In the past I’d do workouts, chase KOMs plus do two group rides per week. My training distribution would look pyramidal but my legs were constantly tired many weeks and would not recover until I took a full recovery week. I could push the usual watts with tired legs but I think it held me back from progress.
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Kyle has a nearly 1800w sprint and like 100ftp lol
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Finding this an interesting thread @TRusername combining questions of expected training adaption and wanting to enjoy and be relevant on group rides.
I can relate to your desire to be relevant on the ride and I’m certainly keen to avoid a reputation as a wheel sucker among my friends but I’m 88kgs and my first priority is to make it to the end of the ride with the group so I now try to save my efforts until the later stages of the ride once I’m confident I’ll make it back.
I’ve recently joined a cycling club and this has enabled me to ride with different people of various abilities. I’ve been asking lots of questions and it seems one of my biggest faults has been surging off the front as I am simultaneously fearful of slowing down the group and excited to get the hammer down after resting in the wheels!
I also have a habit of staying on the front too long and then almost immediately dropping off the back. Improving my fitness may help but I guess in the same way as you can’t outtrain a bad diet you can’t outride everyone unless you are Pogacar or Van Aert.
In respect of the training adaptation 10 hours is a considerable investment and I can understand your frustration with the results. That said every summer I ride 10 hours a week outside mostly unstructured which allows me to build up plenty of fatigue and I see a slow reduction in my FTP which I then spend 5 hours a week throughout the winter fully structured on Trainerroad restoring - rinse and repeat. I’m trying to break the cycle this year by continuing my TR plan doing at least 2 turbo sessions a week year round but that’s easy for me to say now as it hasn’t started to warm up yet.
Keep enjoying the process @TRusername, you sound determined and I’m sure you will get there eventually.
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I’m with you @TRusername. 157 FTP. 1200+ sprint. Sigh.
It sounds like a lot of people are missing the big picture… putting out 300w is a massive kj amount for any duration of length. There is energy potential in the body, and it is not linear with weight. So for a 55kg rider to hit 3w/kg vs a 100kg rider to hit the same is quite the kj difference. The real issue I see is the feeling of not progressing. That sounds like a real struggle and a tough journey. My simple and unsolicited advice 
is to create a perpetual macro calendar of training that is supported by fun events where you only target the energy system worked on in that phase. It helps create a sustainable model without the stress of “peaking” but focuses on “progressing.” You got this!
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Thanks for the advice and that’s an interesting one. However can you elaborate on:
Also, progressing throughout the year without peaking is actually something I’m currently looking into. I came across that thought listening to Tyler Pearce’s podcast with Brandon Housler, where he talked about doing his own routine and focusing on year-round fitness without necessarily a sharp peak and then falling apart afterwards.