In this conversation about the merits of longer rides versus shorter rides on the trainer with higher intensity, the one thing that doesn’t seem discussed is the overall TSS. I think the implication is you could in theory match the long ride workout and weekly TSS from the outdoor rides with indoors and get similar results. But that higher volume will probably be best, so do what you can to maximize overall TSS (within bounds of safe training).
I believe that training at higher IF trains a different energy system and more specific TSS is better as you get closer to your event.
I am also curious how the new “do ride outside” feature would map the 2-3 trainer rides to be longer outdoor rides. e.g. Will a 3 hour indoor be a 5 hour outdoor?
Originally, they had some variations between indoor and outdoor workout structure (many cases) and time (some cases). They had a particular library of workouts that were mapped to the workouts in the training plans. It was not a 1:1 relationship, and the variations between some of the mapped workouts raised concern.
Based on that reception and discussion from users here, TR change to a 1:1 mapping for workout style and time. Right or wrong, the current system is an “exact match” for prescribed work, time, TSS, etc.
Look up Audax UK. They are the equivalent of a governing body and that’s where you should be able to find the relevant rides. The other series that is super impressive is Randoneur Round The Year (RTTY). This involves doing a 200k audax every month for a year. 200km sounds OK, but the requirement to do one each month means you have to brave some terrible weather to get the winter ones in.
Or lucky … I did this a couple of years ago and found a window of opportunity in the last week of January and the first week of February. The rest of those months were bad news.
Best way to train is to do a Super Randonneur Series: 200, 300, 400, 600 and if you want the full series, 1000 km.
200 is training for 300, 300 for 400, 400 for 600 etc. So all you really have to do is to train for a 200. The first time you do it you will think, after every distance, “Man, that was hard.” So the first time, you might want to do two of each. The second one will be much easier and you’ll get your confidence back.
When I do the first 200k for a while, I feel wiped out the next day. When I do the second 200k, and I don’t feel so bad. Then I do a 300k… you get the pattern.
This year due to other factors I had to do 400k the weekend before 300k. So the 400k was harder than normal, and then the 300k was too, compounded by being a fairly hilly route.
I’ve entered a 200k gravel event, two 300k, a 400k so far for next year, and have penciled in a 600k and 1000k but not entered them yet.
I think 400’s are the most demanding of all of them, so you must have really felt it when you did it before a 300.
I do so many now that I have a pretty good strategy for handling them, but the last couple of hours of a 400 are demanding. If it is a 600, I know … “Eh … you’ve got time. Go ahead a sleep a couple of hours.” But with a 400, you just want to get across the finish.
Biggest thing for ultra events (talking multi day, unsupported stuff like TCR) is prior planning - route, equipment, confidence in your bike fit etc and mental strength.
This combined with a good base fitness.
Physical fitness is important as you obviously require a decent level of fitness to begin with (increasingly important if you wish to actually compete near the front, not so much if you’re there just to finish) but mental preparation and mental strength is probably the most important thing of all.
A lot of people are more than fit enough to cover the distance but scratch due to mentally giving up or poor prep leading in. You need to mentally prepare yourself for pain and embrace the fact that you are going to spend many hours spinning away in the saddle with minimal rest.
I’d go as far to say ultra races like these are 30% physical, 70% mental. Shits guaranteed to go wrong and not according to ‘plan’, it’s just how you deal with these situations mentally. Ask yourself if your overriding motivation is intrinsic or extrinsic, if you find its the latter, unfortunately more often than not you’re really going to struggle.
I don’t think the llanfair 400k is too hard if it’s the one I’m thinking of but if it’s windy it can be hard work, so I’m told. My OH was caught out by that when she tried it.
I’m doing the Brevet Cymru yet again. I’ve had all sorts of weather on that including barely above zero at night. It was a cold night this year. I’ve only ridden one other 400k and that only one time.
No, not really. Very few long rides in my cycling career but I have done some.
I think this is where cycling tradition might not stand up. I think you can get some killer muscular endurance on shorter sweet spot rides and be able to do well in longer events (compared to having to hit 5, 6, 7+ hour rides in training).
This seems to more or less fit the trend (or at least the general philosophy) I see from the few ultracyclists I’ve scoped out on Strava (other than guys like Christoph Strasser and Marko Baloh, who are practically pros).
Out of curiosity, what would you consider “shorter” SST rides, in terms of duration/intervals?
I liked working up to 4x20 and 3x30 SST for 2 hours of total riding. You can tack on 30-60 minutes of aerobic after that if you’d like. That’s a big workout.
You could even take that farther and do 4x30 or 5-6x20 if you really hate the long workouts.
My main focus is just such long unsupported multi-day rides, generally off-road, and while you do need to have spent time in the saddle it’s not necessary to do so regularly. The late Mike Hall reckoned that once you knew you could do a couple of 200km days back to back there was little point in doing so since they take so much out of you both mentally and physically that you spend more time recovering than riding.
Fitness is just one part of what’s required, there’s no way you can ride at crit pace for 16hrs a day so your average speed might only be 10-15 km/h for the off-road rides. Refuelling, hydrating and general looking after yourself and your bike is key. An example is bike fit: it took me 18 months to get this dialled so that I didn’t get nerve damage in my fingers. I’d be fine to ten hours’ riding but twelve and more would bring on the symptoms. It would then take six to eight weeks before I was back to normal and could change one thing and try again.
I’m using TR (generally Low volume plans) not to increase stamina but to raise FTP and general efficiency at different zones (particularly Sweet Spot and above) which will hopefully “pull up” my sustainable riding pace. It’s not possible to stay at 60-70% FTP when faced with steep climbs so you need to have enough “in reserve” that those occasional surges into the red don’t do any damage.
Planning for routes of more than a few days is difficult as there are so many variables and gotchas to throw things out of kilter. Being able to adapt to what gets thrown at you becomes key.
I’m always amazed by people that can do long rides inside.
I had an interesting experience this year where I got a little flat in May and then had to ride a 600k and 1000k in June. I decided to ride a couple of 100km a week, and that really seemed to help. That has always been a key training distance for me. Like I posted up-thread, anything up to 300k seems to have a positive training effect, but with 100km rides I need a lot less recovery.
Unfortunately, I blew up my legs in July with back-to-back 200km rides in very hot weather. I had horrible cramping the first day and the heat was so bad the second day I was incredibly slow. I really had a hard time recovering from that.
not trying to take away from Nate’s position, as I agree with it, but keep this in mind:
when a fueling strategy is taken to the next level and becomes a detailed tactical plan Also, I tend to believe that having more long distance training would leave you feeling better the days and weeks after a grueling race like that.
I did a few 5+ hour rides on Zwift as part of my training for a double century this year while using training plans (sweet spot & hill climbing) from FasCat, two outdoor centuries, and a 125 miler. This wasn’t sufficient both from fitness and mental perspective for the demand of the ride. I finished but was miserable the last two hours of a thirteen hours (twelve moving) day. I was averaging 8-10 hours a week and drove my CTL to mid 80’s.
I got slightly loftier goals next year, completing three doubles (CA Triple Crown). I plan to do SSB 1 &2 MV, Sustained Power Build MV, & Century MV. I’m week 5 of SSB 2 and been adding 15 minutes of endurance spin to each week after Saturday’s workout. I’m up to two additional hours or 3.5 hours for Saturday (skipped addin for Mary Austin -1 due to a cold last week and restarting week 4). I planning to add three centuries, a 125 miler, and two prep doubles during build and specialty as well as continue incorporating the light endurance spin after Saturday’s workout (plus 2.5 hours or 4 hours total). Hope I can push on with the Saturday’s spin but might be a bit much given the intensity.
and becomes a detailed tactical plan 
Also, I tend to believe that having more long distance training would leave you feeling better the days and weeks after a grueling race like that.