I used to use Lamarck* to validate my self selected FTP, as Ramp Tests underestimated for me - despite the common narrative that they over estimate (not so for us diesels), and you still need to have some idea for 20 minute test or the KM test. KM test was probably my least worse option/ most accurate of actual tests though.
*Lamarck used to have it in the workout text that it’s a good proxy for the 20 minute test iirc.
Anyway, thank feck for AI FTP, PL’s and AT, and not having to worry about the setting of my training zones!
I didn’t “bad-mouth” Hunter, I simply pointed out that I don’t consider doing a formal test then applying a generic correction worth the effort, because the end-result isn’t accurate enough to be worth the time and trouble. You can arrive at an equally (im)precise estimate a number of other ways, w/o doing any formal testing. (I hate it when testing gets in the way of training, and in fact have never done a formal test of my FTP in my life.) In fact, my list of “seven deadly sins” (also included in our book) includes a number of them. This is “getting the scientific fundamentals right” - prescribing a one-size-fits-all approach in pursuit of false precision isn’t. (Neither is advocating lab-based testing, e.g., measurement of lactate concentrations, as that fails to recognize the variability of such measurements, and the fact that the best predictor of performance is, was, and always will be performance itself.(
Now I have (and do) “bad-mouth” sports scientists publishing on the topic of FTP who haven’t done their due diligence. As I said, though, it’s not a very competitive field, so perhaps not surprising that there is a lot of poor research out there, especially these days.
As for your notion of a TR “endorsement”, that’s simply ridiculous. This isn’t Twitter, with blue check marks up for sale.
ETA: My first academic publication was a paper on Voltaire, which I wrote for an honor’s humanities course my freshman year of college. It was published in some long-defunct, obscure journal for which the professor served as the editor.
There are a few notable instances of exactly this.
His posting style looks exactly like Coggan, so unless someone setup this account and plugged in ChatGPT with the parameters “argue with me about FTP in the style of Andy Coggan”, I think it’s quite likely it’s him.
I laugh because in a recent podcast I heard him say he doesn’t have time to even listen to podcasts. However, he has time to argue sweet spot and ftp with Internet gurus on TR forum? Get your nose back in the books @The_Cog !
The reasons that I don’t listen to podcasts are 1) I can read, absorb information, and type a lot faster than people talk, and 2) with the exception of my friend Glenn’s new Inside Exercise podcast, I don’t know of any with guests to whom I really have any desire to listen.
Indeed, I have been participating in various web forums since the days of usenet. That’s why I am always a bit surprised by the numerous misconceptions that exist out there…it’s not like the information hasn’t been shared far and wide, over and over and over again. (E.g., most of my contributions to the three editions of TRWPM were just recycled from stuff I had already posted somewhere or another.)
You beat me to the punch with ChatGPT LOL. Well, if it’s isn’t him then someone is doing a darn fine job of parroting. Either way, we’re getting the same info.
Rock on, Coggan user.
So anyway, have we figured out what the sweet spot is yet?
Even if it is, I can’t imagine it to be super accurate. I wore a CGM for a week and it was frequently wrong relative to a finger prick test. It tended to over estimate a lot.
the biggest misconception that has been promoted is that FTP can be done for one hour. Ever give that a try? I think of FTP as my red line. It is useful as a benchmark over time and useful to set other training zones as a percentage off.
Without sifting through hundreds of posts here…the only thing I’ll add, as someone who I think has had a bad FTP from the ramp test, and the ai workout switcheroo thing has also gone bonkers…
I just set ftp and manipulate levels by feel now. I’ve been riding long enough that I just decided to decide I know how hard I should be working better than the flawed trainerroad software.
Sweet spot for me starts easyish, turns into work after a few minutes. The last intervals, or last few minutes of like 20 minute jobbers start to slightly edge past uncomfortable into “serious work” requiring concentration.
If it starts hard, gets harder, and 10+ minutes is burning legs and panting…that’s not sweet spot for me…and it seems to be a pretty fine line, now that I know where it is for me. I’ll never trust trainerroad to set that again.
