Transgender participation in sport

Well that’s the question isn’t it, how good is fairly well, and how well do the participants fit in to them? I would say “not very”, the fundamental misconception being that there are (only) two discrete sexes which is not true.

Id prefer a solution which fits all participants, wouldn’t you?


How are we going to systematically check that everyone in the W field was “born a woman”? Check birth certificates when signing up for a race license? Rachel’s birth certificate says female. Have the UCI interview everyone’s parents, delivery doctors or midwives? If this were to be a fair rule it should be applied to all participants.

This is just creating more arbitrary barriers for folks to get into bike racing.

I’d be happy with a solution that is inclusive to everyone, although, again as mentioned above, men are likely to dominate all strength/short endurance events.

This is an odd topic, because supporters of women/feminism in this thread seem to want women to do as well as men whilst simultaneously compete (and in most cases lose) against men. I don’t see how the 2 can exist in parallel without having men and women seperated in competition.

Sorry, how many sexes are there?


You probably live in a constitutional or parliamentary democracy, which protects the rights of the individual and hopefully minorities.


Just a suggestion to give the control to those actually doing the activity versus a leader(s).

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You keep coming back to the same point, which is simply wrong…“being born as a woman” is using a binary scale to assign gender and demonstrates a lack of knowledge on the subject. Just because someone is born with female reproductive parts does not necessarily make them “female”. There are links above that help explain that.

Additionally, you are using the term “biology” as if it somehow “scientifically” proves your point. Biology is much more than reproductive parts. Again, birth parts do not correlate to gender.

We can’t reach a “common ground” when your starting point is flawed. There is nothing to agree upon. We can agree to disagree, and I am OK with that.

As for “democracy”, a key hallmark of any democracy is the protection of the rights of minority groups, not simply “majority rules”.

I don’t know anything about Rachels birth certificate, but it is certainly concerning if it says female, since she wasn’t born as such. I’m not against her being trans and having some certificate to say she is legally a woman, but saying she was born as a male seems a step too far.

I’m not sure why you think interviews would be necessary. Everyone has government issued documentation, both current and historic that can prove an identity and I don’t have an issue with everyone having theirs checked when enlisting in a sport of restricted participation.

If gender is an abritray barrier then why not just have mixed fields of men and women? What other arbitrary barriers do you see preventing people getting in to bike racing?

This is just getting silly now. You continue to misrepresent my views. 75% of your post is you rewording what I’ve said in to a format that is a) incorrect and b) makes it easier for you to refute. Let me be as clear as possible…again:

  1. I asked a QUESTION. There was no opinion shared. No inference. I didn’t tell you what I thought and that you should think it too. I wanted to understand the other persons thinking and logic trail.

  2. Being born with female reproductive parts doesnt make them a woman? Or doesn’t make them a female? Is biological sex now also a social construct?

  3. Human biology does indeed confirm that over 99% of people are born as male or female. There are a tiny number of people born as intersex. Do you disagree with this?

  4. We can reach common ground, but I’d like to do so by you actually reading what I write and not what you’d like to think I’m saying.

You are right about democracy, I’m sure, and my reply was admittedly facetious. However, the point that myself and a lot of others is trying to make is that pandering to the feelings of a tiny minority is not in the best interests of the huge huge majority who are disadvantaged by said pandering.

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I think the idea of splitting races by age, gender etc is to split based on factors which you have no control over (I.e. I have no control over my age or gender regardless of how I train etc.). This is not the case if split by v02 max, weight, ftp etc. Splitting races by these factors just seems like…well bit pointless in an ‘everyone is a winner’ type way. The problem arises with transgender is this distinction breaks down. If someone changes gender through hormone replacement or similar then is that a ‘choice’ (very arguable either way). Similarly penalizing a lady as her testosterone levels are naturally ‘too high’ seems crazy to me - not a choice of hers and no different to me saying pro riders are all genetically better than me at cycling so should all be penalised so I can be a pro!!!

Very difficult issue at a competition level - morally and ethically inclusion all the way and people can live however they please or choose…but does that still hold if people have an competitive advantage because of that?

But I addressed your question - it is flawed. Being born with female reproductive parts does not make you “a woman”. Again, your starting point is flawed, and therefore we cannot reach common ground.

That is the thinking that allowed a lot of horrible laws and practices to prevail across societies since the beginning of time.

Again, we can agree to disagree and I am OK with that.

I’ll see you in other threads. :+1:t2:

I was thinking about this the other day and wondering if perhaps those who are biological males but are altering their hormones could file something along the lines of a TUE like we have in triathlon. This way if they win they could then be counted in the “open” category? I am sure it will offend someone but its another option.

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That’s a good point. Interesting thought!

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How is a question flawed? Im open to being convinced, I dont know what else I can do.

You said being born with female sex organs doesnt make you a female…

I didnt have a starting point, i had a question.

Head, meet brick wall.

Thanks for your input…i think

But obviously I don’t believe I am the one making the mistake here. I am also not being disingenuous in the slightest — I expressed my sincere beliefs that you just happen to disagree with. I also don’t understand how you can have an informed opinion on my sincerity and motives based on what I wrote, but whatever. Finally, I also didn’t comment on whether the belief that transgender people should be able to participate as women was either right or wrong.

What I did comment on was Colinio’s statement that allowing transgender people to participate in women’s sports is a “farce and is political correctness and pandering gone mad”. My point being (which I stand firmly behind) is anytime a person believes a complicated and contentious issue is so simple that their opponents have to be acting in bad faith (i.e. “pandering gone mad”) they should have the humility to step back and analyze whether the problem may be with their lack of knowledge and not their opponent’s bad faith. This logic would also equally apply to anyone accusing opponents of transgender participation of bigotry. If everyone would take this step disagreements would be much productive and pleasant. For more information on how lack of knowledge on a subject is often correlated with confidence in one’s beliefs please see the Dunning Kruger effect. It is really interesting stuff.

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Like what?

I totally understand the sentiment :+1:

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Good question, I don’t know but google and medical science suggests there are 9 genetic variations and 5 different genitalia types…!

Whatever the full answer is I think it’s safe to say “not 2”.

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So you want to implement reform in society and sport based on something you dont know?

Here’s the top result from google when I asked how many sexes there were. Im not suggesting its a credible source but it does suggest you spent atleast a bit of time finding answers that supported your ideology

I don’t think this is a friendly discussion any more so I’m out.

Good luck :+1:

Sorry you feel that way. I think this discussion has been interesting and thought provoking and if me having a different opinion to you is unfriendly then I’m sorry.

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