Hi all, I am currently following a TT training plan on TR for a hill climb race in June, and starting a new session of training using low oxygen machine since it will be around 2300m altitude at a finish line.
Type of machine is the one you wear a mask connected to a machine.
I assume this will cut power output due to low oxygen. Though stimulation and fatigue are there which TR is not supported to recoginize. So FTP estimate and intensity target will be thrown out of window.
Does this mean TR’s plan is no longer a smart training plan I should follow? How can I incorporate low oxygen training with TR? Of course it’s gonna be awesome if TR officially support low oxygen training but it doesn’t look like it.
I know that Living High Train Low is established method but I work full time and it will be impossible to do that with using this type of machine at home. I wish I could just do an altitude camp.
Are you going to do all your training at simulated altitude? Or just occasional sessions? If all training, then the TR plan will work as normal.
If only some sessions, then I’m not sure how it’ll work. The general rule is VO2max declines by 6-7% for every 1000m gain. So you can use that to adjust power targets. But I don’t think TR will adjust its AI FTP algorithm to treat your sessions at “altitude”differently.
A bigger question though is - does live low train high actually work? From what I’ve read, results skew towards “no”.
I am skeptical that you’d get better results this way. Like others have said, your proposal runs counter to “living high, training low”. The idea is that spending 24 - x hours per day at altitude stimulates adaptations that increase O2 uptake, which you can cash in when training low. (That’s assuming “living high, training low” works.)
“Training high, living low” would combine the worst of both worlds: the stimulus is likely way too short to get you accustomed to high altitude. And you’d get a second huge negative, you’d limit how far you could push yourself, i. e. your workouts will result in a lower stimulus as you run out of gas more quickly.
I’m gonna do 3-4 sessions per week and try to use in free time(rest state) as much as possible.
What I’m hoping for least is that make less negative impact from being around 2000m which is -10% of your performance apparently. So if I can make that to -5%, that is some gain. I know it won’t be enough to make some EPO and more blood since that require 12h per day minimum.
What I am asking is not to gain as much as LHTL. But what I can make of LLTH(technically not high in terms of air pressure. just low oxygen)
I think you’d be leaving a lot on the table by consistently training at a lower output due to the low oxygen. Far better to maximise the training to off set that 10% drop than blunt the training. In my experience (topped out at 4600m on the bike before) being able to cycle at altitude takes days and days to adjust to and it’s far better to just raise your total fitness in general than try to mimic high altitude in relatively short bursts at home. If you think your threshold is already at or very near your ceiling, then it’s time to start looking at other stimulus but untill then stick with the proven training methodology of maximising output and duration
I don’t know how much you’ll actually gain from the lower oxygen training. If you go over to the Leadville thread(s), you won’t find many people doing this kind of training.
But it will give you some idea of how much your FTP reduces in response to lower oxygen.
Average is 6-7% reduction in VO2max per 1000m gain. But individual response can vary.
I see. I will keep eye on my power output closely so I won’t go with too low oxygen and deteriorate quality of training.
I already made up my mind doing this and question is how to make it count with TR rather than should or shoud not do. But since you guys know the otherwise is the way, it will be interesting experiment for me. Eespecially if no one is doing it.
As I posted this, I was also approaching a coach who is recommending this. I’ve got a response saying maybe I’m a little short of time as well but did say it is effective still. And he is providing a tailered menu for me. so we will see.
Thank you all for your comments and I will keep you guys posted on how my FTP or ability like VO2MAX changes if anyone is interested.
Make sure to do your hardest intervals with full oxygen, lowest altitude as possible. If you want to try and layer in Z2 Acclimation rides you could try it, but my understanding is like everyone else - train low, sleep high.
And I’m not sure you’re going to get enough benefit from a couple hours here and there, probably just hamper / hurt your training by effectively lowering your FTP and the work you can do.
(3X Leadville Racer, spent a total of 7-8 weeks there and the town is at 10,200’ / 3100m, top of the course 12,500’ / 3800m. Lots of discussion on acclimation for that race and others - I’d just arrive as early as you can personally)
Make sure to do your hardest intervals with full oxygen
For funsies, take this idea even further. Why not increase the oxygen available for training beyond sea level, so you are sort-of oxygen doping your training for higher output. Live low, train lower™. No idea if this has been tried, or if having supplemental oxygen during training is appropriate for general health…but forget 120g/hr carbs, let’s do 120 LPM O2.
(I do generally agree with what you’re all saying - bad idea to wear a mask while training, don’t blunt the training…separate the altitude sessions - this is intuitive for me too).
I will keep eye on my power output closely so I won’t go with too low oxygen and deteriorate quality of training.
I have to say that this doesn’t make sense. Reducing the 02 available will drop your power and deteriorate training, as the aforementioned studies show, but maybe you’re saying you want to keep it within 5% or something (won’t let it deteriorate significantly)? I would assume you’re monitoring blood SpO2 as well, could be interesting.
Totally left field - but it might be interesting to think about this in relation to blood flow restriction training. You’re hitting a particular stimulus (low 02) harder than you would otherwise (other limiters would otherwise come into play), so you’ll respond to that more. In that sense, train how you’ll race makes sense because you’re creating an alike stimulus for your body to adapt to.
More is not always better. In extreme cases oxygen gets toxic at high concentrations which is why deep water scuba divers decrease the amount of O2 in their mix to avoid oxygen toxicity and not die. But granted, I don’t think you could run into this at non-compressed mixtures, even at 100%.
But I’d also say, there’s a reason literally nobody is doing this. The amounts of supplemental oxygen you’d need would be pretty impractical and would need a full oxygen tent, and then CO2 scrubbing / gas exchange too.
Literally, just do your intervals low, sleep high and don’t overcomplicate it.
Altitude acclimation IS a thing though, generally in the period of about 4-6 weeks before the event. What most people do is do their taper (last two weeks) at altitude to get most of the gains without impacting their training leading up. Some pros will come up to altitude for a couple weeks, fly home or go back home for training, come back again, etc.
