Trainerroad getting called out on pricing and other criticisms

FastFitness tips charging the same $20/month (via patreon) as TR for one training plan, position analysis, and anytime Q&A. Also associated with intervals.icu:

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One thing non Zwifters consistently fail to get about Zwift is that it has an erg based workout mode that is on par with the TR app. AND, TrainingPeaks automatically syncs workouts with Zwift. So, if you have a live coach (99% of them use TP to send workouts to clients) or you buy a stock training plan through TrainingPeaks, you can seamlessly do your bike workouts indoors on Zwift in erg mode. The Zwift/TP combo gives you access to 10x the plans TR alone does and a much much wider variety too since you can pick form over 100 coaches. The TR plans are great, but if you happen not to be on the same page as Coach Chad for whatever reason, you’re out of luck.

I recently started a plan i bought through TP and I’m doing the rides indoors on Zwift. That part is as good if not better than TR. Zwif’s erg workout mode works great. But on top of that, with my plan I am getting scheduled weight training workouts (with a spreadsheet to calculate rep weights), links to video yoga and stretching routines and core/strength workouts IN MY TP CALENDAR and integrated into an overall scheduled plan. TR is still, despite their recent efforts, light years behind this type of set up.

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you have any examples of your polarized weeks? thx.

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I’ve used zwift erg mode (I’ve done a couple of ftp workouts there) and it’s good and all. But I think seeking out TP plans can a) be really daunting for a newcomer and b) I’d imagine the ability to substitute variants of a workout depending on how one is feeling the way you can do with TR is quite limited. I know some people doing the build me up plan baked into zwift, not really sure how that translates into results. So I don’t mean to make any blanket statements, just kind of general observations of a lot of people I see on zwift. I think with the right structure any product works, the key is helping folks get that structure going, and in my biased opinion that’s easiest with TR and the community, but of course everyone is different.

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Other than weight training, yoga, stretching etc, I don’t see one single reason to pay $100-200 a month for a coach at an amateur level. Maybe if you’re racing P12 and contesting state/regional/national champs, but even then, only after you have taken care of ALL the other low hanging fruit.

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I’m 34 and I went from never having ridden a drop bar bike, and not riding a bike at all for 10 years, to nearly a 300w ftp in the last 18 months. There is NO way I would have been able to do it for $15/mo without TR. Period.

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How much is TP and how much is the coaching?

How are you comparing using multiple sources to one source?

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Those are good points and I certainly agree that TR has great strengths and in particular provides an easy on ramp for folks new to structured training or not interested in having to pick from a million plans. They are in a very competitive field though and TR is not nearly as unique in its offerings as the hard core TR fanboys believe.

As far as Zwift goes based on my experience with teammates and folks I know well enough on Strava to have a general idea of their training methods, almost nobody I know is just "riding around’ on Zwift. Its structured intervals, planned steady state rides, or races/group rides. These folks ride on Zwift exactly like the ride outside.

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TP is 10$ month or so. You’re paying for the metrics, calendar, pushing workouts to a platform like Zwift or even TR. Plans are extra, coaches are extra.

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Agreed. zwift plans are one thing. but with group events, climbs like the Alpe set in erg…and races; its a nice way to supplement structured training while riding inside.

Heres the TrainingPeaks plan store Find A Training Plan | TrainingPeaks

TP has a free version and a premium version for $120/yr

I use TrainingPeaks and a plan from my coach and I’m not paying anywhere close to 100-200/month. I think if I break it down, I’m paying maybe 25$/month with zwift, TP, and my plan.

Hell, I was using TrainerRoad and Training Peaks at the same time. A lot of people still use TrainingPeaks and it’s not going anywhere.
Regardless: TR is an amazing value considering what you get. The forum, the podcasts, etc. It works. I’m sure I’ll be back on the plans when I need to shake things up again.

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Anyone else notice that he has a Sufferfest code in the youtube video? Why is that? He never contacted us…

I don’t know if this was, but a TON of reviews are paid placement. There are entire youtube channels that seem like reviews but are just paid placement.

Anytime where you see a “use this code” about a product review you know that they are working together with the company they reviewed.

This whole video seems like a take down piece of TR. He misrepresents us, doesn’t talk about a lot of our features (like plan builder even though he has a screen shot, analytics, calendar, plan progressions, power match, Android app, etc), doesn’t mention that at a yearly price we’re the exact same price as Zwift.

He also thinks that we just advise people to do sweet spot base year round?! We don’t do that.

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My number is probably off a bit: Zwift 15$, TP 10$
My coach gave me my plans for half off and if you break down the two plans I have that will be for Dec-April, May-June and repeat the second one, It’s probably at most $30/month everything. Granted, I’m in a unique situation.

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Not sure how you came up with that figure. My training plans for the coming year were $250 and that is one time expense. I own those plans and can reuse them. (I paid over $500 for the TR plans i repeated . . . I have no problem with the subscription pricing model but we need to compare apples to apples). I do pay for Zwift and TP (and WKO too) but i did that when I was doing TR plans so that does not count for me.

I am most definitely not saying that TR is not a great choice. I just get a little fed up with the TR cult. I’ve been doing structured interval training in various sports for close to 40 years. Structured interval training works but there are a couple accepted basic approaches and a nearly infinite number of variations in specific workouts or plans within those confines and they ALL work if you follow the plan. TR is great, but it is not unique. TR was unique when they had virtual power and no one had power meters. Now, TR is just a plan store and one among many. Just pick the one that gets you excited and that you’ll follow. But be open to more than just TR if you want the full scope of what is available.

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:joy:

Gets old, doesn’t it? :wink:

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A coach that sets individual training levels rather than peg everything to the one figure of FTP. Science has moved on, even the very people who coined the term FTP and the training levels associated with it say so. There is a reason why there are so many posts on the forum related to VO2 intervals or people not making gains during SSB, it’s because one size doesn’t fit all. I bought a plan using WKO4 ilevels off TP and saw huge gains, where previously I couldn’t often finish VO2 workouts on TR as they were pegged at a set percentage of FTP. TR is a good product, but considering how often they mention science on the podcast it surprises me that they still use the one size fits all FTP system.

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And this is part of the problem of the youtube/social media world we now live in. Everybody becomes an expert. And everything posted becomes fact. My mom says she can figure out how to do anything with YouTube. Sure, but can you figure out how to do it correctly.

It’s sad that misinformation like this video get repeated over and over and drowns out the facts. Just keep up the good work @Nate_Pearson and TR team.

I’m currently not a subscriber, but thinking about joining just from what I keep hearing about the calendar. The amount of help you give the cycling community is huge even to non subscribers. I have zwift and use it for endurance or recovery rides regularly over the winter. Their workout mode works really well too. But I think many may miss the source of these workouts when comparing. Who knows where zwift workouts come from. From the podcasts I can see the TR workouts come from chad who has a scientific mentality and has a reason behind the progression of workouts. That is a huge difference!

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I wrote a more in depth response as a comment on the video. If I missed anything please let me know.

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