See I feel that a motor and battery is that much easier to detect with IR camera or weighing all team bikes and comparing them that I can’t see it being feasible.
A new PED is much harder to find so will be more likely to be used.
2 Likes
Exactly….there is hard, physical evidence of motor fraud. Grab any bike you want and inspect it…if it is there, you’ll quickly find it.
I’m far from an expert but there’s some argument it’s not as simple as it seems.
2 Likes
I’d argue that Joe’s article backs up my position…it is very simple to find. As he notes, there are only 3 areas to hide such a system.
Pull the wheel and weigh it. Pull off the cranks arms and look for gear engagement modifications. Pull out the seatpost and shine a light down the seat tube.
Done.
Realistically, the idea of a hub-based system is not feasible, IMO…at least not with sponsor-correct gear. There is no way you are going to fit a motor in a current hub design….so mechanical fraud would require an oversized hub and would be immediately noticeable. (Maybe you coulda hidden one in an old school Powertap hub, I suppose).
Hide it in the rims? Lot of perimeter weight….easily detected.
1 Like
The easiest way would be for each team (or better bike manufacturer as part of the UCI certification process) to have to submit to the UCI at the start of the season a bike (all models / varieties) in each size that they use, and have the UCI weigh the bike variety / size to create a baseline weight. The UCI could then ensure that these bikes are free of motors, and create a baseline weigh / weight profile.
Then all you need to do is weigh bikes, and any that deviate (outside of some natural variance) on the heavier side from this baseline you pull aside for more in-depth testing.
Given the added weight that adding a motor / large enough battery would be, and the difficulty of pulling this much weight off of a pro-level bike, a bike weight check would be an effective first screening.
Another problem with mechanical doping is you’re dramatically increasing the number of people who know about it.
A bit of TRT and HGH done on the sly only I know but if my bike is modded at least 1 mechanic knows, you’ve also got to explain why only 1 dude works on that bike which in itself is suspicious.
If you let a few people fix the bike then they’re in on your motor then it’ll not be a secret for long. The quote goes: “Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.” - Benjamin Franklin.
3 Likes
In theory, yes that would work….but component suppliers use teams as a PR vehicle and supply them with new gear all the time. There are also multiple wheel options, frame options, etc.
I think it would be a logistical nightmare. Quick visual inspections before / after races would quickly reveal any mechanical fraud, IMO.
2 Likes
Agree that there are multiple options, but creating a baseline weight would be one more detail, and allow you a way to screen every rider / every bike for every stage. Plus random sample at the end of stages.
Again, this isn’t perfect, but you could do a pretty good job. For wheels, the easiest thing to do would be to weigh bikes without wheels, and then have wheel manufacturers submit wheel weights as part of the certification process. Then you could create a database for every frame / wheel combination. Is this perfect? No. But it would be one more way to check / eliminate this, and the hard work is all computers:
- Create an app
- Select frame size
- Select wheels
- Bingo - app spits out baseline weight to use as the reference
If actual weight varies on the heavier side from this by more than X kg (maybe 1?), you do additional / more invasive testing.
Ah, I get you. I thought you meant no one
would use a motor currently because of the existing testing regime. I certainly hope it’s not going on, but I also understand the inclination to not look too hard. I think a WT-level motor-doping scandal would probably destroy the sport for good.
2 Likes
Ok. I submit a bike and add 250g of ballast. After you baseline it I replace that 250g of ballast with 250g of motor.
In AlphaDog’s scenarios, you would submit the whole bike…would be easy enough to find “ballast” hidden in the bike when they break it down
Youd be looking for the missing ballast later, mechanics routinely add weight to meet uci weight minimums, or at least they used to, maybe they tightened that up.
No - this is why the bike is turned over to the UCI to do the weight baselining, so that if the UCI wants, they can strip the bike down to ensure nothing funny is going on. You could also put in additional rules stating that the bike has to be unadulterated, and the penalty for adulteration (like adding weights) is a time penalty for EVERY race of the season.
I really don’t understand how WVA is one of the best climbers, one of the best sprinters, and one off the best TTers. (I actually do. Rhetorical question) How is he not in yellow, green, and dots?
Imagine if he was in 2-4th place, and he is contesting wins on the flat stages. The GC guys and teams would have to respond to that, right? I would pay to see that!
1 Like
I know it could just be a second language thing, but anyone else find Pog’s response to the motor thing interesting? Since this is the gossip topic and I’m an English major and can’t help but overanalyzing every word…he said he couldn’t hear it.
Now, I’m sure that it’s possible he is just so accustomed to the noise of his own bike that he doesn’t notice anything out of the ordinary, but I find it interesting that he didn’t say oh yeah that noise is because of the hub, the crank, or something else. He just flat out denied hearing anything. Anyone who reads far too much into single words have any input on that? I think the motor doping thing sounds absolutely insane in this context, but it is interesting that he didn’t try and say what the sound might be he just said there is no sound.
1 Like
It could be a language thing, or could be (response) coaching, as he had a similarly ambiguous response to allegations of doping early on.
I find the whole CyclingTips report pretty weak/far fetched really though. It seems we’d know about some of this technology given how much the popularity of e-bikes is exploding. It reads as sour grapes from someone aimed at the four most successful teams.
I don’t believe Pog is clean though personally, but it’s all circumstantial, hearsay and innuendo still.
1 Like
Cycling fans have to be the worst fans of any sport, truly. You folks are hilarious. Can’t you just enjoy the sport?
9 Likes
I can enjoy the sport AND my obnoxious desire to critique and analyze a sentence to death because that’s all I’ve been doing in grad school.
For me, I get a race AND a chance to nerd out over comments 
3 Likes
this is the speculation thread, literally its the point of the thread is to just gossip and speculate about stuff
many of us enjoy the heck out of the race, I definitely am! Enjoyment and wanting to discuss random unprovable theories are not mutually exclusive 
6 Likes
I’m picking you weren’t a cycling fan as a young person. It was pretty disappointing to find out your hero/s were cheating. I’m not surprised that a lot of people are more cagey/less likely to invest themselves.
1 Like