Are GC contests bad because of dopers or because the strategy required to win a GC contest is suffocating and leads to boring racing?
I would politely point out that you are stating this in a thread entitled âspeculation and gossipâ. While I accept that the thread has become somewhat PED-focused, which is possibly a shame, you will note the general irony hereâŚ
Iâm actually not sure I agree there is nothing that could be done to fix the situation, but thatâs OT.
To change tack, then: how would Pog have faired against Bernal, had Ineos chosen to bring him, and Roglic, had he managed to stay upright?
You could say this about any aspect of the TdFâor sports for that matterâat all. Some arenât a fan of HC mountain stages that end on a descent and have expressed that opinion. People have complained about Southgateâs selection of penalty-takers at the Euro 2020 final.
Iâm a fan of neither, for the record 
That said, I wouldnât have traded places with any of the penalty takers for a million pounds.
OT, obviously, but to what extent do you pick the penalty takers in advance, or go with who fancies it (or doesnât) on the night? As - to me, and I know nothing about football - it seems more a test of nerve than technical skill, Iâd be erring with those who feel confident. Or simply keep Southgate as far away from anything involving penalties as possible (joke, to clarify, in view of some of the vile stuff doing the rounds in the UK: heâs done a fantastic job IMO).
Iâm willing to be proved wrong, but I think the âstrategyâ youâre talking about is an historical anomaly. Whether itâs Postal or Sky or Last yearâs Jumbo Visma squad last year, that style of racing is only possible if youâre winning the arms race. Yes, having a five man squad of 170 lb domestiques riding all the other GC contenders off the wheel on the final HC climb of a stage is suffocating, but also pretty suspect in context. What most long term fans want to see is Lemond-Fignon, the Cadel TdF, or 2006 when chaos breaks out.
We had chaos this year⌠at the start of the race. And now a bunch of GC contenders are done.
This yearâs better than most, since UAE is a comparatively weak squad. Much more like 2006 or 2011. But, really, does anyone really salivate over the prospect of a Sky/Postal/JV -style train?
This was indeed impressive and surprising in equal measure
Why are you posting in this thread then?
I fail to comprehend how it matters how long I have been an amateur cyclist for, non-pro, not near pro level, not involved in pro-racing - compared to others who have been amateur cyclists for longer. Shouldnât really matter in this thread, should it?
I have also reported how I was involved in pro/ semi-pro level sports, and how doping was ever present.
Lastly, I am not saying because I can only do 5Wkg FTP, Tadej canât to 6.5.
I quoted sources and compared it to enhanced pro performances of other riders.
But hey, letâs disregard the entire thread and just make it personal. DM me if you want to carry on on this level.
Thought Iâd ask if you had a plan.
Ad hominem attack much? I fit none of those descriptions, but Iâm sure raising an eyebrow when I see performances that strike me as suspicious.
As others noted, this has been answered multiple times. It is all up thereâŚup to you if you want to follow the discussion.
Honestly, and I apologize for being harsh, your whole post is an example of the bad faith arguments I noted above. You attempt to personally demean those that are asking questions and then donât bother to read the discussion before repeating questions which have been answered multiple times.
How come Cobrelli is getting all the heat as a âsprinter turned climberâ while Matthews was right there with him. Actually there were a ton of guys in that final group. I guess the climbs werenât very difficult today.
These are just samples. Every top level athlete is doped. I just take that as the baseline and enjoy it. Doesnât bother me but they are doped.
Just look at the soccer/ NBA /NFL players of today vs 20-30 years ago. You donât need a test.
Because science and knowledge on training, nutrition, sleep, recovery, smoking, alcoholâŚETC. has been stagnant for 30 years? 
ASO have taken down a lot of Tour de Tietema content from Youtube. They even reposted wheelie contest imagery during the week, but some idiots at the ASO decided TDT have made infringements to TDF and therefore cannot share the content.
Complete and utter BS. One of few initiatives connecting professional cycling with a younger crowd.
Those things absolutely have improved!
So have performances of athletes.
In many sports, the performances now are better than back in the day, despite todayâs performances being clean, and former record performances being enhanced.
You really have to wonder, that in a sport like football (soccer), probably the sport with the most money in it globally, there are hardly ever busts on pro level. Maradona was busted for coke, but I donât know a single top tier athlete to have ever been busted for PEDs.
In junior ranks, it is a lot more common that people are exposed for PED abuse.
A few people in football (named earlier) even walk around with a physique, that would allow them to compete in UNTESTED bodybuilding shows. Not only does a certain top tier player in England with such physique achieve this physique while his focus is not bodybuilding, but also he does so without âlifting weightsâ. The statement was seconded by his team mates and training staff.
Despite his traps and delta looking eerily similar to those of roided out pro bodybuilders, he has never failed a test.
The English Premier League has 572 active players listed and there were over 2,300 drug tests conducted in 2019/20 season. A player that plays regularly (like the one I referred to) is tested more frequently than the many many players that hardly get and game time.
The player in question therefore passes at least 4 drug tests a year in this competition alone 
. They are unannounced and in random intervals, usually directly after matches.
There is so crazy much money in this league alone, every team has a higher budget than the entire UCI world tour combined. Playing in the premier league, unlike competing in cycling, means you and your family are set for life. That constitutes an incentive to compete there, at least in my mind.
This is the Wiki on this particular league:
Itâs crazy how no one ever thought about cheating, not even pain killer abuse.
Iâve always wondered why doping isnât more widespread in professional football, especially given the money involved. I think there are 3 possible explanations:
- The players just donât dope, either because the culture isnât there, or because the main components of success (not the only ones, clearly) are skill-based, not purely physical.
- The testing isnât designed to catch people out; the old ârandom but donât test that guyâ story.
- The huge amounts of money involved makes it easy for the players to have the advice to beat the tests.
My suspicion is point 1. I am fairly sure that doping starts with culture. I forget who said it, but it has been suggested that people dope mainly because they believe or convince themselves that everyone else is, so that a) thatâs the only way they can compete and b) if everyone is doing it, itâs not really cheating. That to me seems a good explanation of the mindset.
You are never going to eliminate the drugs or the incentive to use them, so all you can do is make their use totally culturally unacceptable. Sadly, you donât have to look very far on social media to find accounts of people showing off their âenhancedâ physiques, and being relatively open about their drug use. Albeit out of context, that normalises PED use to a lot of young people.