The trainer/app will make a resistance change that offsets the cadence change.
That’s the whole point of ERG mode.
This has nothing at all to do with training in ERG mode.
Sure, but only if you are talking about the difference between ERG mode and Resistance mode (or dumb trainers).
That is not at all what my post was about.
Again, that misses the point and possibilities of using ERG.
I can post many workouts where I use a wide range of cadence, for a wide range of power targets, all driving primarily via the ERG mode, and hit the workout objective right on point.
Again, all these comments above lead me to believe there is a core misunderstanding on how ERG really works.
Maybe it’s misunderstanding, or maybe you are changing to discussion about riding outside?
That is worth discussing, but it was not at all the focus of my comment that you quoted, so I may not be following your train of thought right now.
I mean I think there is reasoning for not using ERG for super high end stuff like anaerobic work as if you get bogged down it can kill the workout, but for noodling around in Z2,3,4 I don’t see why you wouldn’t do it. It isn’t like there are a bunch of people able to put out 400 watts on trainers for 5 minutes and then get outside and can’t crack 300. I usually find I set more PRs outside than inside.
Yeah great points and those are some of the unknowns I was inferring about. Different muscles are used to help meter power and the same muscles are used a touch differently it feels to me. Who knows? I have way bigger things to worry about training wise. But, I’m not that good so maybe this stuff is reserved for the elite athletes…
I would argue that the main drawback to Erg mode is the fact that it generally limits you to either low- or high-inertia riding. Riding in the small ring vs. the large ring activates different muscle groups, and there have been numerous threads on here trying to decide which one is “better” for training. In reality, you need to be able to do both if you ride on flats and up hills, so I use Erg mode but I vary the gearing at different points in the workout to make sure I get that balance.
Notice the very steady cadence (other than the slow cadence, standing breaks) and how much variation is shown in the power graph.
It has the same basic power variation (breaks/boosts) bouncing that can be seen from a rider in Resistance mode and controlling the power more directly via their cadence (and related gearing).
This was performed on a Kickr 17,
ERG mode,
Latest firmware,
No smoothing on ERG mode (Wahoo setting),
34t x 17t (middle of 11-28)
There is variability in EVERYTHING. Even in Tom’s precious Resistance will vary. And his point of narrowing that range makes sense.
But that type of performance can be honed on ERG by learning to steady your cadence and make sure you have a clean and efficient pedal stroke.
Resistance mode is a way to do it, but sure as hell not the only one.
So much of the confusion seems to come from a lack of full understanding and proper use of ERG mode for accurate comparison.
People incorrectly assume that ERG means perfection, and it does not. It is a tool that allows some great use and different advantages than Resistance. But it’s not magic either.
My overall point is that neither option is completely superior. There are pros and cons, and people should likely use a mix, if they can.
It actually ALLOWS more use than a Resistance mode. The fact that you can essentially use the highest or lowest gearing (and any one of the 20 other gears between them for a typical road bike) is not a drawback, it’s a BENEFIT.
You can use the max, min or any version of inertia that the trainer offers simple BECAUSE you have ERG mode. That doesn’t work on a dumb trainer at all. And it works, but is somewhat restricted using Resistance mode on a smart trainer.
The key issues is understanding the capabilities of the tool, evaluate them against your own needs, and use the tool however best meets those needs.
ERG isn’t a limiter. It is an open door that can be used in so many ways.
The only limiter is the person sitting on the bike if they don’t understand the tool.
This will vary from person to person and their specific needs, but yes, I agree that a variety is worthwhile.
Cadence in first interval was pretty steady, second interval had a little more variation, I think these were standing drills. But regardless, it still takes concentration to hold the wattage at my desired cadence. I find ERG more of a “suggestion” rather than an absolute. You go above, things get a little easier, go you below and they get a little (or a lot) harder, but there is nothing keeping you at an exact wattage.
Agree. If I run TR with my KICKR as power source and control my KICKR with TR while at the same time recording my ride/power from my Quarq crank based power meter to my ELEMNT head unit and then compare the two, I see nice smooth lines from my TR ride analysis but with the very same ride uploaded from my ELEMNT/Quarq I see a very jagged power line.
We’re all in the same boat about how inane that IG post was, but for what it’s worth, a dumb trainer doesn’t work that differently for me. Especially with short spikes and vo2max, I establish cadence and gearing during the warmup “teasers” and then only look at cadence (and as the workout goes on, at time to go) rather than power. With the delay from my power meter, that ensures that I go for the right power and don’t overshoot. It’s far easier to “ramp up” to 110rpm than to a precise wattage target. So in that sense, my trainer forces me to focus on cadence and fluid pedal stroke all the same.
This exactly. That is how I use my old Road Machine when I am not on my smart trainers. Holding cadence (once you have the right gear set) is the best way to remain steady and narrow that Floor/Ceiling that TD is talking about.
And the same basic approach applies to ERG. The tighter you keep that cadence range, the better the power graph ends up reporting.
Totally agree. I love Erg mode! But your average person using Erg mode is doing it because they don’t have to change gears, so I doubt they are varying low- and high-inertia muscle recruitment during their training. People like us debating Erg mode on a forum during the middle of the week are the exception, not the rule
Yup, totally got that. I just like sharing that Wahoo uses a silly default setting, and people can get better and more accurate data by swapping that setting.
Yes, and that is something that I think should change. 5 years ago, when most people thought $300 was a lot of money to spend for a Kinetic Road Machine, ERG was for the select few that had a CompuTrainer.
With the advent of smart-controlled trainers down to crazy low price points, I think more education about ERG is a “MUST-HAVE”.
I want to do one that builds on those, but works on the practical aspects and importance of cadence, and mixing the various ways you can maximize the benefit.
It’s on par with the history of the power meter itself. We need to educate and inform new users about the ways to best use these fancy tools so they are more than high dollar accessories that get misused.
Probably just trying to fit TD’s logic in there somewhere.
All said and done, I’ll stick to my own argument/opinion that for almost all TR users/cyclists the marginal differences between ERG and resistance trainers won’t make a material difference.
I don’t get how anyone can buy a pricey smart trainer and not use the “smart” aspect of it.
“ERG ALL DAY”
While I do wonder some day if I could have gone a little harder, I usually accept that I’m feeling better and didn’t raw-dog-kill-me.
On the other hand I’ll need more than 2 hands to count the times I’ve bang it out all the way to the end (would Never have happen outdoors, when you are smashed the focus and motivation is hard to get).
I’m a 1/2 outside 1/2 inside type trainer
*best’ing every interval =/= nailing the workout (I’ve paid my coach for month where he kept trying to get me to understand that)
enough?
