Tom Danielson and Erg Mode

@mcneese.chad - You’re on to something in reference to potential legal implications. And I do hope TR’s legal department has been notified.

Tommy D could have posted this without “borrowing” a screen grab from TR and still tried to make his point.

(This does not constitute legal advice in any way, but rather conjecture from a cyclist/attorney). :+1:

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Whilst I’m not sure I agree with some of his arguement, I think I fall into the same camp in the fact I don’t really like ERG mode. But that boils down to personal preference. I prefer to find the power myself and hold it myself. Again personal preference, but I like having to find the gears/cadence etc myself. Makes the sessions just a little more interesting.

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Yup, he could have easily used the Zwift version, that is very present and easily found.

But I firmly believe the choice to use a TR image was no accident. The slant supporting Zwift in his post, and using the TR image in the circle/slash is meant to point the finger at TR in a not-so-subtle way.

It is really poor behavior on his part, even without any legal implications.

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:man_shrugging:

This is coming from a guy whose career is marred by poor choices. If history is any indication of what to expect, this is where denial of wrongdoing occurs as a response to being called out.

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Thomas “Tom” Danielson (born March 13, 1978) is an American former professional road racing cyclist who most recently rode for UCI ProTeam EF Education First Pro Cycling,[2]until a positive test for synthetic testosterone in August 2015 and Cannondale’s decision not to renew his contract.

Lol, enough said Tommy D, I’ll stick to “playing T-ball” and do it the honest way.

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Agree 100%. I’d advocate for not using erg if you are training specifically for a TT and need to work on your pacing at your intended power for whatever TT length you were doing.

Otherwise erg all the time for me.

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I trained for TTs last season on sustained power build exclusively using erg mode, then smashed my 10 mile PB, and won my club’s local evening TT series.

Getting to and holding a TT target power (particularly on flat courses) isn’t a particular skill in my book. You just… do it.

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TD’s post is based almost entirely on “broscience” and a lack of understanding for what erg mode is.

His post makes it sound like a motor spins at 300W and you go along for the ride.

His rambling about “how” you generate power completely ignores the reality of trying to ride erg mode if you don’t already know “how”, anyone who has used it for any length of time is familiar with the death spiral into not pedaling at all. Erg mode is not a “free lunch”.

Do I always use erg mode? No I do not, I wouldn’t even say I like it or enjoy it, but is a very useful tool.

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Folks, we all know that TD is an ex-doper. He has paid for it dearly by losing his career prematurely and not to mention the public shame incurred.

Let’s not sledge the guy here. Let’s stay on topic and on the merits of this discussion.

I am regretting posting it here looking for feedback.

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Tom is getting what he wants. He intentionally posts something inflammatory and counter to what many riders are doing. I don’t believe that’s an accident. He also seems to stoke the fire of the storm he started on the IG thread.

Questioning his use of a competitive product pic (TR) to one he clearly supports (Zwift) is rational since he could have used the pic I shared above, and relates to a setting that many people actively use in Z.

If he so firmly wants people to step away from ERG, why not share a pic of the app he seems to support? It is the logical choice to refer to the supported product, not a competitor. But maybe that makes too much sense as I am a pragmatic engineer-type individual?

I don’t really care about his history. I have enough in his post to judge, and my personal experience with ERG, to make my own call.

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I really don’t think Tom is getting any wind from Zwift. Maybe he is. But he’s certainly not the first coach/athlete to not like ERG mode and not recommend using it. Who knows why he didn’t use a pic of zwift or suefferfest or what have you. he could have easily found the zwift erg one or maybe this was the first one he found. I honestly do not think he was trying to bash TrainerRoad intentionally, but who knows. He could have certainly gone about it in a different manner.

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This. I love ERG mode for multiple reasons, but I also pay close attention to my RPE during given intervals because RPE is what I’m gonna use outdoors.

One of the main reasons ERG mode works well for me is that I tend to have a drifting cadence. I’ll start an interval at 95 and by the time I’m done and fatigued, I may be at 80-85… sometimes lower.

If I was on resistance, that would equate to a drop in power unless I’m actively shifting gears… then it’s a matter of hoping to find the right gear so that I’m not in too high or low of a power range. And the worst part is, if I’m too high, I may end up blowing up on an interval I could have otherwise accomplished at a steady power!

Maybe not so bad is being too low and not getting the full benefit of the interval, but that’s not my preference.

I personally use ERG mode for as much training as possible and use resistance when I have to or when it just makes sense (sprints).

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Personally I just blocked the guy on Insta so I don’t see his posts and he doesn’t ever get any engagement from me ever again.

I’ve wasted more minutes of my life thinking about his inane post that I’ll never get back.

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Agreed :). I never said that you can’t pedal fluidly on a “dumb” trainer. it’s just that erg mode eliminates other variables thus making it easier to focus on cadence. You don’t have to worry about shifting or watching the power number and so you’re not stomping on the pedals each time the intervals/workout changes trying to hit that mark. You just fluidly pedal and you reap the rewards.

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Isn’t learning how to keep your cadence steady part of keeping your power “steadier” when you are outside? Shouldn’t you learn/know what different RPM’s feel like? Seems ERG mode makes this easier for you to develop a muscle memory.

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Yup. I find it interesting when people say they don’t like ERG because their cadence is not steady. Well, riders are responsible for their own cadence at all times in ERG. So if it is varying, it is due to their pedaling input. ERG can show your pedaling flaws (speed, consistency, etc.) and will even punish you with the spiral of death (clinch) if you get lazy and let that cadence drop too much.

Despite the claims that ERG can make you lazy, I feel it actually requires some real focus. It is different focus than the power side when in Resistance mode, but focus none the less.

As you say, ERG gives you the opportunity to focus purely on cadence and keeping it steady. In fact, holding a steady cadence at the power target is the precise reason that ERG is so handy. You essentially ignore watching the power, pay attention to holding your desired cadence as close to your preferred cadence target, and viola, you get solid stress applied to the muscles and rest of the body in the workout.

I am all for using Resistance mode too, and learning the best ways to get the most from what it offers. But I think people often misunderstand what ERG really is and how best to use it. It is very different from simple resistance and I find that new ERG users frequently have the opposite expectations of how it should work.

They chase power via cadence and/or shifting to hit the target (which is very counterproductive), miss the point of what ERG can do for them (varied flywheel inertia, ability to work a wide range & very particular cadence values, etc.) and often discard it because they use it improperly or have incorrect expectations.

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For 99.9% of us just riding more will make us better riders, the mode we do it in is largely irrelevant.

Ride more, do it in whatever mode you prefer, and if you get to the point where sweating the smaller issues like this become important fair play to you :muscle:

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@ktimesk Lots of great opinions on this thread. I use ERG on my Kickr and love it - that said, ERG solved the single, biggest problem I had with my Kurt Kinetic - hitting the correct gear, cadence, and tire pressure for my dumb trainer to get me to the right watts. It was borderline infuriating.

I haven’t used non-ERG mode on my Kickr for that reason, but I definitely use non-ERG for mega sprints and huge power days.

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Disagree.
If using a single gear, producing Xpower will require a different cadence than producing Ypower.

Just go for an outdoor spin on a fixed gear.

Doing something like Over-Unders in ERG with a steady cadence of 100rpm is just the same as shifting to hit the target power at the same rpm.

The most productive would be to simply up your cadence. Unless you want to believe in the real world you can produce all power levels at one cadence in one gear.

That’s my 1/2 cent. :upside_down_face:

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One reason I am thankful for this forum is the fact that going from a Fluid2 on Wednesday’s ride to a Kickr Core on Friday’s ride, I had no issues adjusting to erg mode because I knew how it worked and what to expect. For me, it was really as simple as shifting focus away from the power and over to the cadence.

I experimented with the gear selection and found little difference in feel for me. But again, all that’s stuff I might’ve worried about for weeks or months that simply reading 10 minutes’ worth of posts here alleviated.

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