Good fans make all the difference indoor. I used a 20" 90w metal fan and a smaller plastic one for a long time, they move a lot of air but don’t have much air velocity.
I got a vacmaster fan few weeks ago and the difference is huge, I use all of the 3 fans now.
I can pretty much hold my outdoor FTP up alpe du zwift now.
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There are plenty of reasons to be critical of TR - this, is much further down the list for me, personally.
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What fans?? If they aren’t blower fans the air velocity is too low.
Box fans or any standing fans won’t do anything imo. Blower fans are literally the only fans worth using.
Feb ‘21
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Reading through this and the other threads about people not being able to ride at FTP indoors makes me wonder if people are adjusting the trainer resistance to find the right level for them.
It seems that FTP is limited by physiologic/metabolic limitations. Indoor vs Outdoor is just an ability to express it.
But that is true and not a myth OR a cult
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I see what you’re saying, but different sports have different metabolic costs so that gets messy.
Now the position thing is another good question. To me, your cycling FTP is established by your aerobic capacity and your cycling muscles efficiency (for lack of a better term in mind). If you’re doing workouts in a different position (TT maybe) and can’t hit your numbers, I’d argue you’re getting a lower stimulus.
I’d argue that just like with riding indoors, you need to look at the why.
Specificity for position is important and I’m not arguing against training to ride a position you intend to race in. I’d suggest that it feels harder but has a lower physiological cost (as a guess).
Point is, it’s a functional test and therefore affected by the conditions it’s conducted under. It’s not a physiological test.
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Heat. The reason is heat and air flow.
Because the amount of oxygen you can metabolise while cycling doesn’t change when you take the rear wheel off your bike and lock it to a trainer.
Same with position. Unless your position is really off, you should still be using most of the same muscles in much the same way between road, gravel, MTB, even TT/Tri.
Yes, functional as in not directly measured.
The question is, if you are still doing the same training stimulus in terms of lactate clearance etc (and that’s a question I’d like a clear answer to - like training without a fan) but riding 20W lower, are you getting a lower training stimulus. And why.
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So, related to the first half of Tom’s “Biomechanical” section, would you consider or suggest adding some form of motion in order to bridge the divide in differences?
Things as minor as thick foam mats to rocker plates all the way to rollers may well be the items to help close that gap.
Yeah, and I guess it’s then a philosophical question. To me, especially because I am not 100% certain that the stimulus is then the same, I’d be looking at the why and how I could bridge the gap.
Essentially, you’re right. But people here get really hooked on details. I happen to think the wrong details, but everyone has an opinion right?
Once you get over these and learn to love, or disregard, your FTP it all becomes much easier.
Do a few FTP tests, check out AI detection, walk away, relax.
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It’s affected by vasodilatation which leads to lower oxygen perfusion to the contracting muscles. Vasodilation Is affected by skin temperature. Skin temperature is affected by ambient temperature, humidity and air flow…
FTP is affected by the conditions under which it is performed …
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Similar but I’ve had a different story for 5+ years. Learn to feel the tipping point between stable and unstable physiology, call it FTP or CP or the border between heavy and severe intensity domains or go ISM style and call it the turbo zone.
Learn when to use FTP and when not to use it.
Relax.
Or is that your ability to express your FTP.
We’re saying the same thing but getting a different result.
Are you getting the same/optimal training stimulus because you’re training at your maximal steady state, if that output is at a lower Power output and a lower aerobic cost?
Agree. And that’s the part I can’t wrap my head around/decide where I sit.
If Power is a end result for the amount of Oxygen you can uptake on the bike, and you’re riding at “FTP” but it’s at a lower physiological cost. Does that equal the same stimulus?
Taken another way, away from riding Threshold intervals.
The year before last, and part of last year, I never rode with a fan on during any rides up to 90%FTP. My HR was sky high. I’m sure it did actually give me some really good adaptations that I’m currently missing, but, is it better for me to ride at 250W at 125bpm, or 220W at 130-140bpm? I
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Maybe you were doing a form of heat training?
I think your question about adaptions being different or not based on conditions is very relevant. Semantic pedantry about FTP definition aside (I am guilty of this :-)) it begs the question; if output at physiological steady state is different under different conditions are adaptions then also different?
I suspect, it is also a question that is very difficult to answer. Given that there are many types of adaptions the answer is probably not either/or.
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