Yes, ok, got it. This was one reason I started using RGT Cycling. On it I can create my own route with variable slope. e.g. x% slope for y miles at z power target is n minute interval at zone L. Takes a bit prep work though and I don’t necessary get the timing right especially the recovery portion.
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On a dumb trainer holding power means holding a steady cadence, although it seems I have learnt to keep a steady power.
To be honest, I was trying to get used to erg mode and just tried a few things like changing up my cadence (which is something I do to break the monotony or to split up a longer interval into smaller pieces if the going gets touch). On my dumb trainer that mean I shifted 1–2 gears up or down and adjusted my cadence accordingly. But large changes in cadence (+/- 20-30 rpm) in erg mode don’t feel very pleasant, even when I try to shift gears. It seems that the time scale on which the trainer reacts is exactly the same as for me, so we get into each others hairs.
The only thing I’d add is that large fluctuations in power lead to faster fatigue, especially the closer you get to your FTP. Plus, erg mode felt mentally much harder during the FTP test, like cycling through molasses. I still think I did alright, so perhaps this just takes getting used to. And perhaps the reason has more to do with inertia: with my dumb trainer, higher power means higher speed, which means higher inertia (from the flywheel).
I wouldn’t exactly put it this way, it is more that with erg mode everything is in opposite world: erg tries to stick to the power on average, so if I overshoot my power target by increasing the cadence, it’ll ease up, which further increases my cadence because I want to keep a steady power output. Conversely, if I want to slow down my cadence, the trainer clamps down by increasing resistance, which further slows the cadence. My natural instincts I developed on my dumb trainer are exactly counter to what I should do in erg mode.
That was true on the third sprint in a recent workout where my oxygen starved brain went into muscle memory mode and I shifted up a gear and decreased my cadence in advance. Once the resistance increased sharply at the sprint, it was impossible for me to turn the pedals.
- Very true, and something I apply any time I step back onto my Kinetic Road Machine. Once I see the basic gear and cadence combo I need to hit the power target, I ignore power and just focus on cadence. So that emphasis is quite similar. The real difference comes in how the trainer reacts to our inevitable changes in cadence. RES vs ERG handle it differently, so we need to make sure we hold cadence a bit more stable over time.
- Yup, I do that a fair bit too. We just have to recognize the difference in getting to a faster or slower cadence and how we must achieve that while in ERG.
- Going to a faster cadence requires an “overpower” effort where we kick a bit hard to the desired cadence, settle in and let the trainer stabilize.
- Going to a slower cadence requires an “underpower” effort where we easy up a bit and let the trainer clamp down on the resistance.
- Each one leads to some power fluctuation depending on how much and how quickly you aim to change cadence. Sometimes you want to ease into it, while others you need to be firm, so it takes a bit of learning and practice to apply it properly.
I found that for swapping cadence from regular (90ish) to slower cadence (60ish) works best with small to big chainring shift up front, or 3-4 gears in back to handle this with minimal impact to the power. I use it all the time for my standing breaks or anytime I want to swap from regular to low cadence work.
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I had over 20 years or so on various dumb trainers before getting a Wahoo Kickr and adjusting to ERG mode took a while. It is definitely a different form of riding and it took me a while to get reoriented to focusing on cadence and learning how to game the system. ERG mode really seems to punish me in particular when I am close to my limit. With ERG mode, if you are really pushing to stay on target, you will either feel like you are pedaling through mud as you battle the dropping cadence or fall outright into the death spiral. In some sense, the more you need ERG mode to force you to hit a target, the more likely it is to mess with your ride.
Instead of forcing yourself to hit the workout target, be a man and adjust the intensity down when necessary (and maybe even admit your FTP is not quite what you think it is). Even a little can make a big difference. In my dumb trainer days, I never adjusted a workout target even one time, I’d just do my best and if I was 5 watts low, so be it. That self adjustment does not work with ERG mode. ERG mode got a lot better when I found the intensity buttons. And, don’t be afraid to turn ERG off and do workouts in resistance mode. That lets you easily find the power you can actually do on this particular day at this particular point in a workout instead of letting an unthinking and uncaring machine pick your power.
As you get used to it it gets better. And, if you ever want to find out what ERG/Sim mode is really for, do some Zwift riding. ERG/Sim mode shines in that environment 
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Erg mode with power match will always be a bit slower to react than when power is provided directly from the trainer. As others have said, don’t chase power, just maintain cadence. That should dampen the power excursions to an imperceptible level. I don’t find it so different from doing workouts in resistance mode: you also end up all over the place if you try and chase the power target. You set a cadence, see what the power does, and adjust the cadence accordingly.
I also use the same method as @mcneese.chad to take standing breaks: shift to the large chainring while standing up, drop to the small chainring to resume.
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cadence is your friend
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@OreoCookie this is my illustrates my point - why develop a skill that doesn’t translate out on the road? Sim mode is not Erg, but is awesome when paired with a app like Zwift/RGT/etc. My Kickr has level mode which emulates a fluid trainer and is similar to riding outside, next best thing to sim mode.
I’m still on the fence about ERG mode since getting my Kickr after many years with my trusty Road Machine. It’s got a little better for me as I’ve got more used to it, but my preferred method right now is to ride around in Zwift with it controlling the trainer and shift/spin as necessary to hit the targets in my TR Workout. This really helps mix things up more and is more similar to outdoor riding where cadence and pressure on the pedals is always slightly changing with wind and/or elevation and is never completely static. If I do just want to focus on hitting the targets with precision and zone out more then I’ll let TR control with ERG though–nice to have both options to mix it up.
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If you were using TR plans with your dumb trainer one thing that is informative is to go back and compare data for the same workouts done on the dumb trainer and now in ERG mode. I’d done the same plans one year to the next and they had not changed much nor had my FTP changed much so I had a wealth of data. A frequent result was that the same workout done in ERG mode had a higher intensity factor and a noticeably higher Kj. Aside from the ERG differentness that takes some getting used to as discussed above, ERG mode can be just flat out making you work harder. Turns out I was not really nailing all those intervals in my dumb trainer days and now that I was being forced into 100% compliance 100% of the time the “same” workouts got quite a bit harder That forced compliance is a prime feature of ERG mode and it has its uses and benefits. But, you need to be aware of it and monitor if you need to adjust for it.
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From the original post:
I believe that, and my experience is the same with both outside workouts and Kickr workouts in level mode. And before the Kickr nailing intervals in the gym on a Stages stationary bike. I’m not some special snowflake, anyone can learn to nail intervals without Erg.
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I wanted to thank everyone for their advice, I think this has been quite useful. I’ll try a few more workouts with erg mode and then try resistance mode. I have gotten it to work on my Wahoo, albeit not very reliably. I’ll lose left/right balance, though, which I am not thrilled about. (Apparently the Suito doesn’t provide that.)
At least my experiments told me that the Suito’s power numbers line up nicely with my Quarks: they are a few watts lower (5–10 W at around 220–240 W using the eyeball metric), which makes sense since the Quark doesn’t see the drive train losses whereas the Suito does.
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