Time to move on from TR?

Yes, I have set it to Pro, which is “In average more than 11 hours per week”. On TrainerRoad I am in Sweet Spot Base Phase II High Volume.

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Join uses a more polarised approach, so it wants you to rest for the 5x4min @120% or 4x5 min @ 115% sessions (sometimes sandwiched between 40-60 min @65%)

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You know, that sounds really good. And easy. Hell I want all of that too!

Joe

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This was also my proposition to introduce advanced plan builder for users who want to have more control over the plans.

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Agreed! Looked at through the 1-10 scale, they’re just “junk rides” with no value. It will be crushing when outdoor PLs are released and PL bumps from outdoor rides are shown as ‘pimples’ due to low compliance / time in zone etc

Your 4hr power % of FTP looks incredible. Any tips on raising it?

Exactly. Unless you actually do structured training outdoors or outside TrainerRoad, these numbers will probably be low anyway. They can perhaps make it easier to onboard new users as they don’t have to start at proficiency level 1.0.

I think it is important to appreciate that the proficiency levels are not there to rate you as an athlete, but to guide TrainerRoad in suggesting the next workout. As an example I as able to hit 9.0 or so in my last round of V02Max. This was done with the longer intervals at low intensity (105-109 % or so), but when the plan switched to higher intensity (~120%) at shorter durations I had to dial back. And it shows that not all VO2Max workouts at one level have the same difficulty for you.

Export the workouts to trainingpeaks, have trainerroad road import trainingspeaks workouts, to see what level trainerroad would assign to the JOIN workouts. JOIN workout outs are not easy, some are really really hard…

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Some JOIN workouts can lull you into a false sense of easiness and then you do them and that fades away…

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After 4 weeks of JOIN’s ftp builder program on intermediate these are my TR levels (sprint levels are leftover from doing SIT in the summer not from JOIN). I only matched workouts the workouts if I put the workout on my head units, which I don’t always do but just do a workout in the spirit of the suggested workout fitted into the possibility of the terrain(which JOIN just let’s you do)

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But did you increase your FTP? And from what and to what? :grinning:

According to JOIN from 270 to 278 the last 28 days Last time I ran TR
's AI FTP almost 3 weeks ago both TR and JOIN estimated my FTP at 272 W.

I enjoy doing JOIN’s workout and I don’t need to worry so much about the training schedule if I feel like doing something else (just ride the way I feel, fast or slow) JOIN just adapts the program

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Follow on question, how long have you been using Join, and was you FTP steadily increasing when you used TR (if so why did you change)

Yes my FTP was still increasing with TR

I needed more flexibility in my training due to work schedule which TR can’t really offer. And I find the JOIN workouts pleasant, not weeks of sweetspot or threshold (like sweetspot base 2) but a bit of variety, sometimes VO2max, sometimes anaerobic, sometimes mixed workouts, sometimes a bit of tempo/sweetspot or just a bit of relaxed cruising along. And the simplicity of the workouts makes doing them outside much easier

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I am starting to think all these automatic ftp detectors are creating more complexity than they’re worth. “TR says my ftp is X, Intervals.icu says it’s Y, and Garmin says it’s Z”. I don’t trust any of them and I’m planning to go back to 20 min tests. That test might have its issues, but at least I know for certain what my ftp result was from my performance on that one day from that test. That’s close enough to plan training for the next month or two and not worry if I went up or down 1 or 2 watts here or there. I’m convinced that the key to fitness is consistency and not constantly trying to figure out how to impress and interpret the algorithm.

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I’ve come to a similar conclusion. I think one of the (many) sources of a couple years of 2 steps back, 1 step forward for me, is trying to ride to an artificial target power number rather than just riding for what I think is an appropriate level for the theme of a workout.

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I’d almost argue that the 20 minute test is just as susceptible to creating an arbitrary number as any other method…if’s just the way you get there is different. If a workout feels too hard…it probably is.

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I agree. Hence the “close enough” comment.

Yea no that wasnt me trying to pick at your choice of the 20 minute test at all. Its more…I think the real benefit of any test is more to gauge progress, rather than to set power targets for workouts. At least if you’ve been doing it for a while.

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They are. At the moment half of topics is about using training ai to do what can be done with 1 click :wink: I observe TR ai from the bench, as I am oldschool and do my calendar myslef with workouts created myself, and using TR only as a workout player and I am amazed how complicated whole progression levels and feedback etc. can be.

I said it couple of times - the principles of training are quite simplistic. And my feeling is that TR become quite complicated and nuanced. The principles are ok, but then there is user factor, not giving right feedback, following blindly very bad plans (HV ekhm ekhm…) etc.

Join showed a lot better approach to this and only drawback is lack of long term visibilty of a plan. But this is only my personal opinion and everybody uses what is convenient for them. Currently my only wish is bringing back “push week” button :wink:

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