This is the workout that supposed to be done by feel. If you hit the power number that you feel is sustained for a long time - go with it. You can slightly increase the effort over time to feel if higher power changes your breathing and overal feeling. If it’s too much - lower the power. Your breathing should be stable but legs should be working hard and tired at the end.
Full article here:
Once you’re satisfied with your TTE I think this is a good time to start supra-threshold work to help raise FTP. 3x10, 4x8, 5x7, stuff like that. Go for durations that you can hold 105-110% of FTP at. Not quite VO2max, but definitely above FTP.
For me doing the extensive FTP work doesn’t seem to add watts to my threshold, it just pushes out my TTE–I need to go above FTP to see the watts increase.
And more low-intensity aerobic work! Can never do too much of that. I’m currently running into a volume limitation problem where I have enough time per week to do a couple 60-90 min interval sessions and one aerobic ride of similar duration, but getting a ride or two over 3-4 hours is tough…thusly my FTP has sort of plateaued.
I like you also find that I respond well to supra-threshold work (up to a point). I was curious, how much time in zone do you progress the supra-threshold work?
What I will do is start with a Seiler style 4x8 session and see how that goes. The goal will either be repeatability (4x8 becomes 5x7 or 5x8) or raw power. If the latter, I’ll just ride the 4x8 again but at a higher wattage, hopefully. Not sure which is more optimal for FTP development.
You can use the workout creator at Trainer Day to make all of these workouts in about 10 seconds.
Alright, first 4x8 session in the books. Final workout on week 3 of a loading week. I was curious to see what would happen to my FRC after these intervals and it tanked. That’s good!
Side note: FTP currently @ 310, but given 4x8’s were done @ 346, 340, 346, and 353 has me wondering if it’s time to re-test.
Used to feel the same. Its wasn’t you, and it wasn’t your ftp. it was old TR library and plans in my opinion. Give new ones a shot! The new library and plans with the progression level has made over unders MUCH better on TR. The progression on the old workouts were a full mental and physical commitment that tested my livelihood, manhood, commitment to cycling, … oh my GOD here we go . 
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Sorry, a couple of Q’s about this pic for intervals:
Using intervals.icu, there’s a bunch of settings at the bottom of your ride page that allow you change what is displayed. Message me if you need help,
This was an outdoor ride with the intervals done on mostly flattish terrain, a couple sections are slightly downhill and uphill. When that happens I either shift or adjust cadence/speed in order to maintain power—it’s harder to do this going downhill.
FRC is the bottom green graph
Hey guys,
How are we for supra-threshold and over and under - would you classify these types of workouts as threshold? - In the sense, would you have standard threshold and O/U or supra-threshold in the same week?
I find TR recommends a lot of supra-threshold work which I really struggle with - particularly those 10min @ 105% - Would I be better of working at 100% but focus on TIZ? I notice there isn’t really those ‘classic’ threshold workout (2x20 @ 100% etc) in my SSBLVII and SPBLV - it’s mostly over-under and supra-threshold work.
I generally don’t fail workouts but I find these supra-threshold workouts really derail my training - but can see that its very beneficial so would like to know how I can best incorporate it into my training plan.
For context I ride MTB - I prefer marathon style - but there is only standard XCO type events where I live - Generally my focus on building a big engine/ FTP as I am new to taking this sport more seriously.
I think those 105s are or were a Coach Chad mainstay, they were a memorable feature of the ‘old’ TT and Century plans that I followed 2017-19, found they really boosted my fitness.
I recall an old podcast where Chad talked specifically about the 105s, he referenced a particular study or paper - IIRC the key takeaway was, they really work for a 2-3 week block, but then diminishing returns… So I’d consider them as sharpening/taper/‘icing on the cake’ sort of workouts, not bread-and-butter sessions.
If I could do three or more 10min repeats at 105% and feel they were ‘hard’ rather than ‘very hard’, I’d be thinking about either a) entering a race! or b) increasing my FTP by that 5% and starting out a progression at 95-97%ish of new FTP from 3x10, 2x15, 2x20, 3x15, 2x25, 3x20, 4x15, 5x15, 4x20, 3x30… (or whatever). I like to think I’d take a good rest before moving to a) or b) but that’s the hard bit isn’t it…
Anyway I have found for me the ‘shelf-life’ of the sub-threshold work is much, much longer than the supra-threshold work (which I associate more with build or specialty/taper), can do that 95ish% and progress TiZ for weeks on end. Hence SS Base HV plans I suppose.
Training intervals right at 100% FTP seem like the worst of both worlds. Much harder to accumulate those multiple looong intervals to ‘push up’ from below, not quite hard enough for that (short-lived but effective) ‘pull up’ from above training effect. Still fatiguing.
Used to think so too but last year I did a block of 2x20mins with rising power and it worked really well. Power went up 20w with same hr and rpe, so all the intervals were close to FTP. This was after a heavy VO2 block.
I guess you just have to find what works for you.
The 6x30/15 workout.
Am I reading that right, you do 8 sets of 6min? That’s a super long workout if there is 6min rest in between. That basically becomes a 2hr workout for vo2?
I understand it the other way around. 6 sets of 8x30/15 (6min). Nevertheless that it still super long. I usually do 3 sets of 8x30/15 and move up to 3 sets 10x30/15.
I just created that in the W Creator and with a good w/up its 1hr 40m, so not quite so bad and probably quite easy to do outdoors if you have the roads.
8 reps of (6x30/15) 6m RBI is what I interpreted it as.
Its…
Sets 6x
30/15 repeated 8 times
(6 minute recovery between sets)
Or at least that is how I read it and saw a thumb nail of the session in TP, although with no commas, hard to be certain.
yep - looking at it again I think you’re right. Makes it 1hr 30m then based on that - not too bad I reckon 
Ouch. I just did my first VO2 session and it was only 3 sets of 5x30/30 and a would be 4th set felt impossible.
I can’t find a dedicated thread on Over-Unders so thought I would post in here - might be worth having a dedicated thread?
I plan to base my next 4 week block around these type of work outs having done HVLT > SST > THR > VO2 blocks thus far. After this intended Over-Unders block I will be off to Spain for a training camp in the hills/ mountains.
Here is what I am thinking over the next 4 weeks:
Planned Progression:
Week 1: Palisade + 2 & Norman Clyde
Week 2: McAdie +3 & Mesachie +5
Week 3: Norman Clyde +2 & McAdie + 5
Week 4: Norman Clyde +4 & Spickard +6
Any thoughts? Has anyone done a dedicated Over-Under block? Should I be taking a more blended training approach?
I haven’t done over-unders in a while, but when I was following some of the SSB plans last year they were some of my favorite workouts - I quite enjoy the feeling of being ‘comfortably uncomfortable’ 
