No issue with balance, and I don’t want the reach longer, I want it shorter.
It seems counterintuitive but what @foxyscott saying is that weight distribution can contribute to feeling like you need the reach shortened… If your saddle is further forward, increasing the weight you need to put on your hands, the steeper angle of your torso and arms as a result of a shorter reach “feels” more stable. If you can removed some large portion of that weight by shifting rearward, potentially a wider angle between your torso and arms can be equally as stable. With your stated height and already on a relatively short stem with a saddle all the way forward, it’s something I’d consider playing with.
2 Likes
I’m glad that you’re getting professional help. Hopefully you get fully sorted out soon.
I see you wonder if you have leg length difference. Did you get your leg length checked to confirm or deny that you have a leg length difference? That is something that can be done easily by a bike fitter or physiotherapist. And it can be addressed by simply using spacers between clear and shoe on the shorter leg.
Strength and mobility work are key. But it’s so easy to have incorrect form and not get the benefit that you are supposed to be getting. Ideally you get professional help in the beginning to learn correct technique and use a mirror or camera to check your form after that. At least watch some videos by Physiotherapists that include telling you how NOT to do the exercise, since it is so easy to make mistakes that result in working the wrong muscles. The human body naturally tries to use the strong muscles instead of the weak ones.
What width bars are you running? Bars that are wider or narrower than your natural arm distance makes your arms have to angle to the hoods, so you can’t reach as far.
Also, it’s likely that you sit more upright indoors, especially if you are looking at a screen that is positioned in such a way to make you put your head in a higher position than outdoors. Higher head = higher torso = your arms again can’t reach as far.
Considering that you have your seat slammed forward, bars as high as they go and you feel stretched even when outdoors, it sounds likely that you have the classic seat too high issue. I works start with that, then you can try the shorter stem.
1 Like
Tried that on yesterday’s SS workout and it definitely helped! Not quite enough, but still a nice improvement. My stems from Amazon just arrived that are 10 and 20mm shorter. Gonna give the -20mm (70mm) a try on today z2 to see how it feels.
1 Like
Sweet! Hoping one of those is the winner. 
1 Like
It feels like my legs are interacting differently with the pedals. However, both, my bike fitter and my physio checked me legs and didn’t find any difference at all.
Thanks for the strength training tips. Luckily, I was respectful enough to have a coach for almost three years for my beginnings. He was the best form/strength coach I could imagine and I am not worried about my form. I am still exercising in front of the mirror and if anything doesn’t seem right I film myself. I let it slip a little during covid times and exercised only with kettlebells at home. I am back to gym for the past month and it feels good!
1 Like
Here’s one for the Retul fitters amongst this group.
“Have you seen a change in fitting over the years?”
Example: saddles sitting farther forward than in the past.
Obvious one would be the change in handlebar width.
What changes have come in the mountain bike space?
Hump
Thanks for the suggestions. A shorter stem was ok, but wasn’t the fix. I swapped to a 400 bar (from a 440) and angled the hoods in a bit and that’s what I needed. So much more comfortable, at least on the trainer. Have yet to get outside due to weather, but as far as a fix for the trainer it’s spot on!
3 Likes
Right on! Sounds like a solid test and solution. Will be interesting to see of the same transfers to outside but this is a win inside.
1 Like
I’m curious if anyone in this thread has dealt with “significant asymmetries,” either as the fitter or “fittee.”
I had a fit with a reputable local fitter recently and they identified “significant asymmetries” in my riding position. The symptom I was trying to resolve was a feeling of unevenness, in both reach to the bars (left feeling farther than right) and cleat position (feet feeling in different positions), despite both measuring identically. The fitter recommended one specific local chiropractor to help resolve the issues and made some changes in the meantime to accommodate the asymmetries until the chiropractor was able to improve them.
I’m skeptical of chiropractors in general and this fitter only recommends this one specific person to resolve the cycling asymmetries. I want to resolve the unevenness feeling, but I’m not confident in an alternative medicine approach. Has anyone else encountered something like this?
Most humans are asymmetrical to some extent, but then again for most it’s to a small enough degree that they it doesn’t affect their life and they’re probably unaware. Past injuries can also be a factor.
I broke the growth plate in my right ankle when I was 15. The orthopedic surgeon was worried that I would keep growing and end up with leg length discrepancy. Luckily I was already done growing (vertically), so my legs are the same length.
I’m seeing physical therapist currently and yesterday I came in with my back all knotted up on the right side. She said it was twisting my rib cage to the left. She first did some massage therapy on my back to release the tension, then some moves that I imagine a chiropractor might do that re-aligned my rib cage. It didn’t hurt, but I feel way better.
I know people that have had great help from chiropractors. On the other hand, I had a professor that became temporarily paralyzed by a chiropractor and as a result had to re-learn how to walk and still needed a walker.
Personally I chose the physical therapist route because I know my issues are related to muscles and fascia which need to be strengthened and mobilized, which aren’t really the focus of chiropractors.
1 Like
Are you right handed so your body seems to be spiraling towards the left side? These exercises might help you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUjY_LUrjIc
Inquiring about some fit things…
-
I’ve had multiple fittings over the years, two were close in one way, two close in another way.
-
I’ve had four Retul fittings. Two of these are close in setup, the first was off from these two.
-
I traveled last summer and had another set of fittings. This fitter didn’t use any scanning software, but his setup was close to the first Retul fitting I had.
-
The other two are strictly Retul and they are close to each other.
Now, fitter 1 and summer fitter have me sitting about 20-25mm higher than the other two. With their setup, I feel like I can lay down some power, but not sure I can get the distance I want out of these fits. I’ve also recently ridden like this and my HR is higher for the same course.
These two higher saddle fittings also seem to start getting some chafing.
Retul fitters that are close both have me sitting lower. I can get distance out of these two fittings, but feel like I lose power while climbing.
HR stays lower for given course with the two last Retul fitters.
Is it common for fittings to be that far off from each other?
What could cause the HR spike at the higher saddle height?
Hump
Exactly the same front end location (bar height, reach, etc.) in all cases, with only saddle height difference?
You don’t mention saddle fore-aft either, so that could be worth knowing too.
Yes, no, maybe. Welcome to the world of subjective results with humans involved (fitter and rider) 
Sadly, we are not machines and the “rules” we see in fitting are not finite in definition either. Variability is the norm to a degree, with hopefully a “closeness” between most experiences (all else being equal). But like any other part relying on people, differences will exist.
1 Like
@mcneese.chad
When going from one Retul fitter to the non-Retul fitting, yes. The bar height and reach did not change. The saddle height and cleat location did.
There is no such thing as one “fit” that is waiting to be revealed. There’s no average human to base rules around, and the goals vary as much too.
For fun reading:
Another thing that was quite alarming and which can easily be observed in the seat height boxplots (Figure 5) was that for the participant with a 4 cm larger inseam, one bike fitter suggested a seat height which fell in the exact same range of the other participant with a significantly smaller inseam.
and
1 Like
Every morning I wake up there’s the potential for something to be different in how I feel and what I can achieve.
Somedays yoga is smooth and I can get into position easily, somedays (most 
) I struggle. If I’m coming off a week of hard running and riding I stiffen up before I loosen up again. Cold weather takes me longer to feel fluid when cycling.
Power held during the fitting impacts position too. Hence endurance riding may have a shorter more upright position than racing when factoring in comfort.
Different, saddles, shoes and cleat placement across fitting sessions will also affect the position.
Climbing, descending, riding on the flat are all a compromise of one position and can be optimised to make one easier than another.
Factor all this into the bike fit session and you can see why there are differences.
Some fitters fit according to numbers from motion capture only and a given software supplier’s interpretation on what’s best for the masses. Camera placement, marker placement and calibration can affect measurements.
Some fitters work with you and have a protocol to help you find the right position through controlled experiments.
Both have their merits. Both may give different results.
HTH Scott
1 Like
Not asking for help (though not opposed to any), just complaining. I understand what you and others are saying. But for me, I am playing with millimeters and still can’t quite solve the issues. By conscious trying and concentration I sit now square on my saddle and my feet are parallel to the bike. However, I can choose between left hamstring, left knee and right hip pain when saddle lower and lower back pain, right foot pain and both knees lateral pain when saddle higher. The problem is that the difference in height is less than 2 mm. Moreover, I already have shorter (170 mm) cranks for my height (190 cm) and my saddle is only 7.2 cm behind BB.
I do have even shorter cranks on my other bike (155 mm) which helps. But even when I resigned on the bikefit and focused on myself the progress is slow. As mentioned above, I am now symmetric on the bike but my hips are still not. The right hip is still somehow jammed while on the other hand I also require the saddle to be low for my height (probably thanks to the anterior pelvic tilt).
I’ve been riding sitting up tall riding without hands on my trainer which helped immensely with wrist and upper back comfort while I was teaching myself to sit square again.
Speculation Mode Engaged…
-
Related to your comments on being able to “lay down some power” that sure implies that you may be using more muscles and/or similar muscles in different ways as compared to a lower saddle height.
-
Considering that your bars stay the same position, you have more effective Saddle to Handlebar Drop & Reach (bars are further out & down relative to your saddle). This may lead to a tighter hip angle through your stroke. It could be affecting your muscle use per above, but it may also be altering your ability to breath a bit from that tighter angle. Additionally, you may be having to support your upper body more since the bars are lower, which could be greater demand on your arms and back.
- Note 1) that this is all a HUGE guess without seeing you between the two heights. You may or may not be altering your upper body position in ways as I mention above.
-
That all above seems to parallel your thoughts that you may not be able to make that work for the rides you have in mind. It implies the bar drop and reach could be at or beyond the limit of what is appropriate for you. it could be that the higher saddle height is “right” and you might need to alter your bars to be higher and/or shorter to get a more comfortable hand location.
How’s that for a start?
PS, you mentioned cleat position in your other reply, which can really mess this all up depending on the amount and direction. I am only mentioning it now because it is a factor that you didn’t mention in the height comments above. It could be minor but impossible to say without more detailed info related to each fit case above. Variables all matter to some degree, so any change should be reviewed in depth to determine if you need it or it can be ignored.