Thank you both!
It‘s a city bike, so the fit doesn‘t need to be great and I can play around a bit. I already got kind of used to being a bit wobbly and it no longer feels uncomfortable.
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Silly question maybe, but you realise you need to lower it while moving it back too right?
You also need to think about handlebar position - if the saddle is moving back but your bars are in the same place, you’re stretched forward more. If the stem can’t be shortened, or raised (or switch to narrower bars to reduce reach a bunch), maybe the bike is the wrong size for you.
Getting some input before I try this out. When I’m tucked down in a more aero position I can more easily put out power. I can’t hold this position for more than a few mins though due to core strength. Would tilting the saddle down have the same effect while sitting more upright still.
Hard to say without more info, but my guess would be ‘no’.
Why exactly do you think your lower position improves power production?
- Think hard about what in your body moves and changes between that position and a more upright one.
- Are you rotating your hips/pelvis differently?
- Is it opening your chest and breathing via better (straigher?) back angle?
It may help you and us to snap a pic in each of two main positions of interest to detect what may be changing.
I have a quick question please. I did an AI bike fit to check on my position, which causes me some neck/trap pain on one side when riding 3 hour plus. I do have some issues with tightness and mobility in right shoulder/neck which probably contributes to that.
So, bike fit from waist down was all good, but it wants me to raise my bars in big red letters. My question is, is it all just a trade off compromise?
Of course raising bars is more comfortable, but it also puts my upper body into the wind a lot more. I also tend to drop my elbows down to keep my body low….this alters the back/shoulder/and elbow angles in itself.
I like comfort but I like riding fast and don’t want to give up watts to the wind if I don’t have to.
I should mention that I put all my mobility in as neutral, not sure if it takes 55 years age into account too (probably does).
Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks
Edit: attached pic 2 posts below.
I’d certainly address the mobility in the shoulder and neck that you mention off the bike whilst searching for a solution. Try some yoga classes and/or find a physio etc.
I have bike fits where my customer’s comfort improves as they raise the bars and equally customers whose comfort improves as they lower the bars. I wouldn’t be a slave to an AI systems numbers, I’d try it out.
Have you got the ability to both add and remove spacers from your steerer to trial the changes whilst sat on a turbo?
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Thank you for the insight. Shoulder fix is in the works! I do have trutrainer rollers to help me with set ups and have had less and more at times: more stack felt cramped and weird; Less gave me a higher level of pain a little sooner but felt more normal than the higher setup.
I am a borderline M / ML and ended up on a ML for this bike, resulting in a stem decrease from 110 to 90. I also have winter bike in M with 110 stem and similar setup. I should probably do the test again in a more relaxed hood position, rather than my default riding position slightly ducked from wind.
If you feel cramped when raising the bar height perhaps try a longer stem at a higher position as part of your trials. It’s difficult to tell much from the picture as the perspective is a little odd.
Have you considered bar width at all? Measure the distance across your shoulders and compare that to your bars. Most people prefer the width to match but hood position is a factor too.
Also as part of the comparison when testing, remember to keep the power consistent and reduce the number of variables in the experiment.
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Two things jump out at me…first and foremost, is your hip position. Your hips are pretty vertical, which is preventing you from being able to lay out across the front of the bike and a big reason why you sit so high up.
Second, TBH, that bike looks too small and you are VERY compacted in that position. How tall are you?
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I could use narrower bars for sure and shorter cranks because I am maxed out at top and bottom angles. I had the longer stem on when I bought it but never tried it raised up…will try that. Thanks.
The bike looks much small in that picture, the ai wanted camera at hip height and it created a weird perspective, it is actually the opposite and the bike looks big on me.
Hip is interesting. I started rolling my lower back more than just hinging at the hip because I read somewhere that it provided better power transfer. Before that, I definitely hinged more and almost had a negative bend in my back. I will research further to get a better idea what is optimal. The Ai wanted my back to be more uptight by 10-20 degrees which seems crazy.
Thanks for your insight.
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No - when you are tucking you are rolling forward which is putting your power phase over the top and in front of the pedal/crank more. This relates to “more” power, if you want to achieve this in a more upright position you will need to slide the saddle more forward, be warned thought that not necessarily proper fit theory.
This long term can cause discomfort, rule of thumb for recreational to trained athletes (below pro) is still ball of foot +/- 2mm over centerline of pedal and knees (usually measured at Fibula Head) close to inline of this centerline (controlled by saddle fore/aft). When you sit vertically (fingertips on tops of bar) you shift behind this line and when you roll forward (aggressive aero) you sit more forward of this line.
Thank you @Sushirockstar! I know I haven’t replied but that reflects more on my comfort level in English than anything else. I’ve tried shimming my dropping (yes, are in the usual pattern of right) leg and out of being desperate also (on other occasion) the other leg. That didn’t help. I’ve rode with saddle twisted to the left (!) almost this whole season. That helped with my right hip but didn’t help my left wrist at all.
I might also add that I am unsure of everything now. It might be that my left leg is functionally shorter, my body allows for it by twisting to the left side and dropping the hip slightly and my right hip then drops only during pedaling motion to compensate for being higher in the first place.
Anyway, I’ve tried even shorter cranks (155 mm which is 2cm shorter than original). I could pedal with higher cadence and was more comfortable just not comfortable enough. I’ve probably lost quite a lot of power (I’ve realized only when on the trainer on another bike w/ 170 mm cranks). Since that was not a solution, I’ve listened to @huges84 advice and went to physio. He did some test on hip impingement and range of motion but nothing showed. Although his suggestion to improve my glut medius strength was probably good one he also mentioned that it would be nice to have some imaging done on my hip to be sure.
Ortho followed and it was a partial success. I don’t have hip arthritis or hip impingement. However, he said I did have unhealed trochanteric bursa from a couple of falls I had (he said it is split in half). Suggested some physical therapy (laser) which I just finished. I can’t say it is better yet. But physio said I should wait two more weeks to see if it healed. Also, I should focus on glut medius strengthening which is what comes up repeatedly.
So right now on the trainer I ride sitting straight without holding my handlebars. I actually can’t ride this bike with longer cranks while holding the handlebars without some serious left wrist nerve pain the following day. I do strength training 3x a week and I am hoping for the best. Knowing that it is not something with the hip joint is good. But that doesn’t solve the problem by itself 
Thanks again @Sushirockstar and @huges84. Btw. I was also looking into AIC pattern and watching Connor Harris videos even before you both suggested. However, the exercises suggested didn’t seem to solve the problem eigher.
Hopefully an easy question. I have a Trek Checkpoint gravel bike on the trainer. I find myself always putting my hands just before the hoods, where the hoods rubber meets the bar tape or even further back at times. Being “on” the hoods feels uncomfortable and too far stretched out. Less so outside , but still feel stretched out. Also, never able rest my wrist/forearm flat to get aero outside. Currently on a 90mm stem on size 58 frame (I’m 6’1”). Comfortably on the bike otherwise with no issues.
Question, do I need a shorter stem?
- saddle all the way forwards
- All spacers under the stem
- Can’t fix it by rotating the bars up or moving shifter body up.
- Moving shifter body up on the bars puts hoods too upright on a sharp angle.
- Ideally I’d want the shifter body lower on the bars to the reduce upward angle.
Yeah, using the outside riding as the key, if you feel too stretched out with all the other setups aspects you mention, a shorter stem would seem to be one option, at least the quickest one to try since it is super fast to swap.
In addition to stem length, checking the reach of your handlebar could be worthwhile. I expect it’s already short in the 75mm range but if it’s longer than that, a bar swap to one with shorter reach could be useful as well or instead of a shorter stem.
With respect to riding inside, I do recommend testing with the front axle higher than the rear. Around 1-2" [25-50mm] higher can act as a proxy for the dynamic riding and wind “pushback” we get when outside. I find that dead level axles makes my hands uncomfortable in short other even on a bike I can ride for hours on end outside. Worth a test if you haven’t already experimented with it.
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Reach? What does that mean and how/where do I measure?
Yeah, that’s what I figured for a stock build. There are some bars with shorter reach (68mm or so), but I would suggest a stem swap since it is much easier than bars.
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How have you arrived at having the saddle all the way forward?
Setting it back can improve balance and allow the reach to be longer.