Sweetspot or Z2 on sunday in trainerroad HV plan

Hi, whats the best isolated workout nr 6(Sunday) in the trainerroad plans for build and specialized.

Trainerroad limits workouts to 2 hours for road, and the sunday is always sweetspot. But wonder if it would be better to do 3,5-5 hour Z2 or is the “long slow distance” workouts for base training and i should rather do the assigned sweetspot and do extra endurance after.

2 Likes

All HV plans have longer Z2 replacement workout in weekly tips.

2 Likes

Sorry, should have said that i knew this.

But Im wondering what is best?
If i know 4-5 hours 70% endurance will reap more benefit than 2hour sweetspot + 1 hour endurance its easier to choose the long.

For info:
I have done many 3,5-4,25hour endurance rides on sundays last 8 weeks , but now starting final build before specialized. And want to choose right sunday workout, im big fan of sweetspot and bang for the buck TSS but will go longer if needed :).

Can’t tell which is better as i don’t know theory of training and physiology well enough. But what i have gathered from bits and pieces around forum longer Z2 rides help:

  • muscle fibers to become more efficient at utilising oxygen
  • train body to metabolise fat for energy and spare sugars for intense effors
  • accumulate TSS with less stress to body
  • just burn more calories per workout

You can read more about it from specific workouts’ descriptions.

I myself always substitute for longer workouts because this is what i train for – whole day long rides. As usual, YMMV.

3 Likes

Thanks for help anyways, you summarise what i have picked up as well about longer endurance rides.

Hopefully there is somebody out there who could explain or point me in the right direction.

90% of my races is below 4 hours, 80% below 2 hours, but i am interested in pushing my TSS and hours high to get marginal gains above normal race time.

As far as I am concerned provided you are getting other higher intensity work through over/under, threshold and VO2 max work I would say 4-5 hours zone 2 is always better than 2 hours SS on a Sunday…problem is we don’t all have the time/weather to do it this time of year!

I think i recall this subject being on a recent podcast. The plans originally had a longer and slow ride planned for Sundays, but nobody did them, so they opted for SS instead.

I am working through the plans, and usually go for a group ride outside on the Sunday for 3-4 hrs. If i stay inside, i do the 2hr SS workout as 3hrs endurance indoors is not my cup of tea. Having said that, the 2hr SS is pretty tough after the Saturday workout!

3 Likes

sooo uh… i’m like thinking along the same lines… i like the TR SSB progression of TSS per week… and I like the workouts… but i’m starting to feel like I want to substitute more rides than just sunday for LSD… like maybe now i’m gunna just do two sst workouts per week during ssb i and ii (probably tuesday and saturday workouts), and the rest LSD… IDK go by feel and time scheduling mainly…

In the end, it’s not super important as long as we’re riding our bikes right?! HAHA

Depends on where you are in your season.

If you are close to a race, sweet spot work is probably going to be better.
If you are far from a race, a longer ride is probably going to be better.

Thanks for last replies PotsieA and jdman. The answers i hoped for.
So then i can go long and slow when im motivated for that.

Yea thats where Im at, when is to close?. My season start with C races from 14.apr.

At 7 weeks out, I’d say it depends how quickly you respond and how quickly you get burnt out.

What do you feel like you need more? I’d trust your instincts on that.

Gotcha. Actually i feel like ive done all already (too early this season, too motivated to start base after sickness at end of 2019).

Already done my hardest 12 week sweetspot base training, then upped my game with vo2max work and long 3,5-4,25hour endurance/tempo work.

But then I will just do what i feel the next couple weeks, Stopping LSD soon (but will do them during easy weeks to maintain longest duration rides every now and then).

if you are doing HV you are already getting a lot of SST in the legs each week. The long sunday ride is actually not a bad one to take to get some solid z2 time in the legs and work on a different type of adaption.

There’s physiology and psychology at play here, but I’d recommend the z2 ride. TR plans tend to have a lot of high intensity workouts and while you may be physically able to SS on Sundays it’s important not to forget about the mental toll the constant intensity can take.

So, assuming that you have the time for the longer z2 rides, and your not causing undue stress on your non-bike-life I’d recommend going long. This would be more in line with the “old” philosophy of keep your hard days hard and your easy days easy (similar to polarized training). And if on some Sundays you find yourself short on time, sub in the SS workout to get the TSS done more quickly and then relax knowing you got solid work in for the day.

Think also of the mental aspect of doing a few hours outside. Aside from the physiological improvements (I’d also agree z2 is a good place to reside) being outside, maybe with mates, especially in a good weather, can be a big boost so I wouldn’t pass up on that at all.

1 Like

For the build and specialized HV the only SST is on sunday. But yes there should be enough time at higher intensity on the other 3 harder workouts.

I don’t think about indoor vs outdoor when i asked this question (though all i do is indoor atm)
Even when doing my biggest and harderst saturdays i still find it easier to work hard for 2 hours then some Z2 than doing 4h+ at 70% FTP. Time goes so slow when youre not working above AET.

But many good answers here and i probably won’t plan my sunday rides. I will do what i feel like on the day and what i think fits best with what week i have done and what week i have coming.

1 Like

Your last paragraph sums it up. Sometimes thre decision is made for you

I’m old and shattered after a tough week of SPBHV and can’t face the thought of 3x30 tempo in Wrights Peak -2 tomorrow.

Z2 outdoors instead for effectively a plus version of Town Hill as I’m not convinced that 2’45" of Town Hill is enough to replace Wrights Peak -2

Yeah, i feel same even if TSS is very close.

Intensity makes difference for me. I usually ignore weekly tip and choose longer Z2 rides on workout page by filtering ‘Endurance’ zone + ‘More than 2:30’ duration and then sort by Intensity (low -> high). From result list I choose first workout that fills the available time best. With one followed recovery day I am ready for next VO2max workout (at least with 3:15 workout, working towards 4+hr)

1 Like

So do you match the intensity of the weekly tip ride and then just go longer?

Less intense, longer duration (more TSS is not intentional, just comes with longer duration)

For example, last week substituted recommended Town Hill (IF 0.69, TSS 129, 2:45) with Allegheny (IF 0.68, TSS 151, 3:15). Didn’t feel much difference during next VO2max workout after the recovery day. This week will try Rafferty (IF 0.65, TSS 157, 3:45).

Can’t say if it improves fitness better or worse. According to FTP prediction model, my improvement is exactly what is predicted, even with those changes.

1 Like