+1 on this, particularly for gravel. I had a solo effort in a gravel race earlier this year, did over 3 hours at .87 IF (right where Tempo and SS meet). If you can stay fueled and hydrated, it’s a very sustainable spot to just get in the zone and push.
1 Like
Has anyone ran into a scenario where they max out their TiZ against their available training time? What I mean by this is…
Let’s say your weekday workout cannot exceed 90min (work, etc). Therefore, the longest Sweet Spot interval would be something like 1x75 (+15 min for the warm up). What’s your strategy? Do a couple of these Sweet Spot workouts during the week and then some longer Sweet Spot work on the weekend if you have more time?
I’ll be in this boat shortly where my weekly workout duration is capped at only 90-120min. Most days it’s 90min. Today I got up early and pumped out 4x20 within a 2hr ride. I could have trimmed this down, but I tacked on 30 min of Z2 at the end. I think I’ll quickly be running into a TiZ limit for my weekday workouts, though Given this progression:
Week 1: 4x20 (2x/week)
Week 2: 3x30 (2x/week)
Week 3: 2x45 (2x/week)
Week 4: 1x90 (2x/week)
Week 5:
Week 6:
I might have to work some Sweet Spot into my longer weekend ride, but I generally like to use that as an LSD ride.
Any creative ideas? Buy more time? or accept the fact that 90min of Sweet Spot is about the max I can put into a workout (which is likely just fine given my age, racing category, and discipline(s))
Pretty much this. I stretch to 75 minutes on the weekdays, then circle back and raise wattage
3 Likes
Well at masters 50 plus eight this spring I learned a few things… did weeks 7-18 of the FasCat 18-week sweet spot plan and each week looked something like this:
- two sweet spot workouts a week
- a tempo workout
- two endurance days
For the polarized crowd, the plan starts week2 with something like 80/20/0 and randomly looking at week 9 the intensity distribution target was roughly 60/40/0 (z1/z2/z3 time-in-zone) which I refer to as pyramidal.
Mid-week the workouts have 10-20 minute intervals. Despite doing short mid-week intervals, I was able to go out and nail longer 40-65 minute efforts. IMHO the pyramidal approach to base has a far better intensity distribution and work/recovery balance than any TR mid- or high- volume sweet spot plan. The past two seasons I’d been stuck with 250W FTP ceiling, but this spring hit 260W with not very consistent training (sick and work drama) between Feb-May.
Instead of overthinking it, in the words of Nike “just do it” (a long effort) every few weeks on a Saturday/Sunday and you might be surprised by how long you can go. Or maybe not, depending on your base. #LessIsMore #FreshIsFaster
1 Like
Ditto. I think my COVID free-time is coming to an end by the end of Aug. I’m going to have to give my sched some thought.
Like you, I like to leave the weekends for long Z2 rides. During the week…??? Might have to go with sub-threshold workouts (Galena etc). Or do 1 long Z2 and 1 long SS on the weekends, then a 3-day block of max’d our SS during the week.
All depends on what the 2021 goals are.
1 Like
I really like Coach Frank Overton’s approach, with two long aerobic development/maintenance rides on the weekend, and one having sweet spot work. For example a Saturday workout with a target of say 175 TSS and 3 hours, and it is up to you on how to get it done. So you could do a 1x60-minute sweet spot effort, or 3x20-min, or whatever makes sense, and the remaining time at z2. And over the course of a 4-week block, the Saturday TSS target will ramp up over 3 weeks and then drop back during the adaptation/regen/recovery week.
1 Like
I did these on my 3x30 SS today; first time incorporating them. Every 5min go all-out for 10sec. I guess it’s like progressive overload with intensity when you max out on time.
It’s also mentally refreshing to break up a long steady interval with some action. No power targets either, just hammer! 
4 Likes
And you can manipulate the burts and make them short, high power or make them longer (like 30-40s) and change the workout into nice over-under session. Do this as 2x30 you definitely have earned a beer 
2 Likes
Needham:
(I think @stevemz enjoys this one)
3 Likes
Yes, I love those types of interval sessions. Bank a lot of Sweet Spot, but also hit the vO2 system. I like doing a full gas seated 45s effort every 5-7 min, it really makes the long interval go by quicker.
1 Like
I’m in a sweet spot block, and now my power meter broke. I can do these by HR and RPE, my HR is generally pretty predictable. But now I wonder how to do the progression. I had the plan of building up to something like 90min tiz, and then go back to shorter intervals and increase power. However now I won’t know if I’m actually increasing power. Should I just keep in the same HR range and assume I get fitter (ie ride at higher power for same HR)? Wouldn’t it then make sense to keep doing the same length interval? (Is that why people never used to go past 2x20, when everyone was training by HR)?
We know that heart rate can be manipulated by a lot of factors. Hydration, sleep, caffeine, etc. So it’s not always a reliable metric, however, couple it with RPE and I would guess that most people get really close to their power target(s).
Just hold a pace that feels sustainably hard. Confirm that RPE with your heart rate, and send it. I’ve been training on the road for 3 years now w/o power and have gotten fairly good at using RPE as my primary metric for regulating work.
Power is great, but if you don’t currently have it use what you do have and don’t worry about being perfect.
2 Likes
I’m getting used to this still. I train indoors with power but use RPE outside and my heart rate always seems lower for the applicable effort level outdoors. Guessing this is due to better cooling, difficult to nail down adjusted zones.
Probably better cooling. Its similar to how most people have a slightly higher FTP outside.
I really don’t see many other factors influencing my HR, the only thing is fatigue or when I’m getting ill. Maybe it’s a personal thing, or maybe the pretty moderate climate here in the UK just doesn’t have much an effect.
Still wondering though how to increase power in sweetspot without measuring it? 
2 Likes
FTP should naturally increase as you extend intervals. You could then work on intensive efforts by doing 2x20 threshold efforts. And again your power should go up. Those are long enough intervals that is your HR is stable/predictable, using HR is just fine.
Here is a nice picture from Tim Cusick’s “Building FTP, TTE, and Stamina Using WKO4” webinar:
Hope that helps.
6 Likes
Yeah thanks, I watched that too. Its funny how addicted to data you get!
The thing in my mind is, I’d want to try to extend interval length and/or number of intervals (like 2x20, 4x15, 3x20, 2x30 etc. But at some point, I was thinking to go back to 2x20, but at higher power, and then build tiz again. But, without a PM, I don’t know what higher power would be. I don’t think it is higher HR, because if things went well, your ftp should have increased, and the second round of progression would be at similar HR as the first, but at higher power. The doubt in my head obviously is that ftp won’t have increased, and returning to 2x20 simply means less work.
(In reality, I’ll probably get sick of sweetspot before I get to that situation, so its a bit hypothetical…)
2x20 threshold will drive my HR to Lactate Threshold HR (LTHR) by the end of the second interval (assuming short rest between).
Long sweet spot intervals end around 7-9bpm lower than LTHR.
Going by HR is not a problem, I got just as fast before a power meter by using HR zones based on LTHR and progressing sweet spot and threshold out to an hour.
2 Likes
Started my 2nd cycle of SSB - SusPB this week and decided to do a 60min sustained effort @ 87% today. Had never done this long of an effort because it’s not in any of the planned workouts. Was really surprised at the result. My HR got up to speed in te first couple minutes and stayed pretty much dead flat for the entire 60min at 160 BPM (my max is 184 and LTHR around 173). Looks like all the shorter sustained efforts in the plans have payed off.
I’ll be looking to build this up to max 90% for 120min. I feel like being able to go this hard for a long sustained effort is really valuable. To support this I will also be incorporating efforts like McKinley into my plan, replacing scheduled SST workouts.
8 Likes
Yeah I was just thinking about that. Squinting at the TSS on the screenshot, I’m guessing that the 3-day progressions are something like 3x20, 3x25, 3x30. The second one is a bit tougher than the first.
Interested to know if you ever do the two weekly workouts on consecutive days or what you put between these two weekly workouts. Thanks!