Holy $%&*
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Polarized. 
9 or 10 actual vO2 max focused workouts in that time frame. 2 rest weeks.
Iāve been wondering how to address the fact that my short power is improving quite nicely but my goals are all about longer distances at higher average speedsā¦ two- and three-hour rides. Iām still very new at this, so the answer was not obvious to me (though I suspect it would be to most here).
Thanks to the TR community, and to threads like this one, Iāve gradually gotten comfortable with understanding how to train better given my individual circumstances and challenges (overweight, short on timeā¦). Now, just after finally managing to complete Donner for the first time in SSB2, Iāve created my own workouts and will attempt a āsweet-spot progressionā of my own for the next three weeks:
Iāve built this to be ambitious, but hopefully achievable. If it turns out Iāve overreached, Iāll adjust. (If you think Iāve bitten off too much, or have any suggestions, let me know!) But at least I now feel comfortable that Iām not just getting a little faster, Iām also learning how to train effectively.
My thanks to everyone on the forum whoās been so generous with their time and answers. 
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Iād start your SS intervals at 90% to begin with, and see how those go. 95% is hard if your FTP is even only a few % too high.
Also read this thread, and listen to the Steve Neal podcast it references. Thereās merit to lowering the intensity of SS intervals and going longer vs going shorter and harder.
The HR cap is also a means of preventing excessive fatigue, which I think is more important for older athletes.
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Also agree, 95% is so close to threshold that if youāre within the margin of error of a power meter or smart trainer you might be doing threshold intervals, in which youāll be in a tough spot given you have a day of strength training that splits up workouts.
Start at 90% of FTP and if your RPE and HR feel more like tempo then you can adjust the workout intensity.
Thanks for all the advice! Yes, my FTP (via ramp test) was probably way too high due to a significant anaerobic contribution. But the Zone 2 work, the strength work, and TR have helped me improve a lot over time: completing Donner last week with no pauses/backpedals, and not feeling trashed at the end of it, felt like a HUGE victory.
Iām happy to drop down to 90% if thatāll be a more effective training regimenā¦ I just want to get faster, Iām not hung up on any numbers. What Iād like to understand is the why behind those decisions, which is why I ask so many questions.
In this case: if I completed Donner (3x12 @ 95-99%) at an FTP of 199W, then 4x10 @ 95% seemed like a reasonable progression. Are you seeing something āwrongā with that plan? Or are you recommending 90% simply because itās a ābetterā plan that will allow me to go to longer intervals more quickly, with less fatigue?
Power has always been a Quarq Dzero on my road bike until about two weeks ago when I got a StagesBike for indoor training. Donner was, I think, my second workout on the StagesBike.
I also agree that going 90% is way better. The longer intervals the better adaptations. Here is Kolie Mooreās explanation: Sweet Spot Progression - #60 by empiricalcycling
With 90% you can simply go longer and in your case that is better than more intensity. You will recover faster and you are sure that you are working in correct zone. After that you can build progress by adding intensity
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Alternating short-high and long-low intervals seems to be working for me.
My last two workouts: 1x100min @ 91%; 6x15min @ 94%
Definitely different sensations and focus but both final 15min were similar RPEs.
Iāll be working on extending both long-low and short-high (via shortening rest periods) until they intersect.
#onebigexperiment
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New planā¦ does this look better? Key features:
- Three workouts per week (two weekday, one weekend)
- Weekday workouts are ~60 min, with intervals at 90% and 3-min recoveries
- Weekend workouts (in italics) are ~90 min, with longer intervals at 85% and 5-min recoveries
Week 1: 4x10@90%, 4x10@90%, 4x15@85%
Week 2: 3x15@90%, 3x15@90%, 3x20@85%
Week 3: 3x20@90%, 3x20@90%, 3x25@85%
Week 4: 2x25@90%, 2x25@90%, 3x30@85%
Week 5: Recovery week
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For a very experienced athlete, about 90 minutes is a minimum dose, and 2h or more is better as we come up on target races.
What does it mean if/when a less than very experienced cyclist does those types of durations?
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What does it experienced and less than experienced athlete means? Probably if you are training for couple of seasons, you are experienced athlete. I imagine that me, with 10 month training and riding a bike better qualify to less than experienced athlete.
But if less than experienced athlete does this, maybe it means that his aerobic fitness and muscle endurance are spectacular or his FTP is too low. Maybe?
Looks like a good starting point. Try it and see how it goes. You may need to move the recovery week earlier. You can make that call after you see how the first 2-3 weeks go.
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I just completed 3 x 30 and am planning to do a 2 x 40 or 45 next. Thinking a rest interval of 5 minutes. How much recovery does everyone use for these longer SS efforts?
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5min should be all you need. No more than 10.
This weekend Iāve done both 1x100min and 1x135min. Did a Kolie TTE test a week ago so I know my FTP is at least almost accurate (57min test). Not sure either my aerobic fitness or muscle endurance are āspectacularāā¦well, spectacularly average maybe. Itās kinda freakinā me out that Iām doing these longest-ever SS rides with no crazy heavy SSBHV to back them up!
I think 5min is the standard maximum. However, if youāre thinking about kicking out 90min of SS, 5min isnāt that much time of the total, you might surprise yourself if you eliminate it.
I always (and still do) psyche myself out when I look at the schedule and see 3x30 etc.; the mindset changes on the bike (vs the couch). You might not actually need to ārecoverā from that first interval.
Thatās one enduring feature of the TTE test, if you can go long enough at 100%, then you know shorter SS intervals should be very doable.
I have the Pendleton monster schedād for today ā 7x20/3min ā will see if I continue the streak or crash & burn!
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I had time for 90-120 min today so I went out planning on doing a 3x20 with some Z2 bookended. This was the first sweet spot workout in a long time. However, I was feeling strong (thanks Polarized training) and decided I had a 4th 20 min interval in me. 2 min of rest between intervals.
4x20 was very doable. Surprising given Iāve probably done 2 or 3 Sweet Spot touch-up workouts in the last 9-12 weeks.
If you race, youāll find that a lot of amateur racing (i.e. gravel) is one long tempo or sweet spot ride. The more you can do with little to no rest, the better.
I like to work my way up from 60 min via 3x20, 2x30 and build from there.
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Sidebar/thread detour:
Ditto. Itās a very weird feeling getting āstrongā after weeks and weeks of āeasyā riding. Shows you how baked-in the old school āno pain, no gainā mentality is. Kolie also mentioned somewhere about the extended time for adaptations to show up for older athletes, this is most likely what Iām experiencing now after thinking POL had made me weaker.
And if you think you are doing too much SS, think again. 
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To improve sweet-spot endurance, is it better to stick to 3 workouts per week of sweet spot and keep increasing time-in-zone? Or is it better to level off at some point and add a 4th or 5th workout per week? If āit dependsā, how would one go about doing that?
And, how does all of that change for Masters athletes 50+? 
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Yes, Iām learning ā slowly, the hard way ā that I need more recovery than I thought.
On the one hand, doing exactly the same workout feeds my data-junkie nature and lets me compare apples to apples to see how Iām improving. On the other hand, your idea to make the first session a little harder makes total sense, because (hopefully) Iām fresher. Iāll play with this for now, and put the shrinking-intervals idea in my back pocket for later when Iām in better shape.
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