Lol
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We are talking about comparing training plans… sweet spot vs polarized. You can probably get faster given any type of training workout depending on where you are starting from. Get off the couch and start training, any training, you will get faster… so that’s really not a relevant comment. We want to make sure we are training as smart as possible given we have other demands on our time and energy. Professional athletes do not. SHOW the data! Why is it so hard… don’t just tell me what to do, tell me why the am doing it and give me the supporting data.
I understand that SweetSpot base phase is directed at time crunched cyclists, so why does plan builder and TR in general recommend SSB to “High Training Volume” (10+ hour weeks) cyclists? As someone who has done SSB LV and GB MV I can appreciate the approach, but now as a 8-12hr/wk cyclist I have a hard time seeing why I should build a more fragile, short term base with SS compared to focusing on year on year improvement of aerobic base.
The whole reason the SS approach exists is to satisfy the needs of people with less time to dedicate and be the fastest they can be this year, but is not as effective when scaled up in volume and looked at over multiple seasons.
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Seriously though, there are a range of studies that may not be all inclusive, but are reasonable resources for those that want to dig into them. Plenty of people have shared and dissected them in the various Polarized threads.
Anyone asking for data from TR should also be asking for data from Sufferfest, Xert, Today’s Plan etc. since they all make claims on their particular spin on training.
In my eyes, they are under no obligation to divulge their research and data (even if made annon). That is the fruit of their labors and something of a competitive edge for their venture.
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True but at 10-11 hours for SSBHV I still think SS is better - worked for me last year…get up to 20 hours and polarised is probably better as you can’t do that much SS. But at the levels of HV TR I would say SS still edges it. But then I race all steady state 25/50 mile tt so I race in SS quite a lot of the time so maybe it just suits my situation
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It is their prerogative to disclose or withhold whatever information they chose to, especially if it is unique data that they are using to develop their platform to get a leg up on competitors. And likewise you are perfectly within your rights to end your subscription, rightly or wrongly, because of your distaste for how Trainerroad control that data.
Saying that they should disclose this data is like asking a tech company to release code for software in the middle of a development cycle, or a bike company to release wind tunnel test data or CAD drawings of a prototype design, sure you can ask but would you expect any company to decide to release information or intellectual property for no real reason that their competitors could use. The answer is going to be no, which to me is perfectly reasonable.
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That is not a valid comparison. We are not talking about proprietary code. We are talking about something much high level results of sweet spot vs polarized etc… these training philosophies are nothing new and nothing that is a trade secret.
- Then the existing published studies likely cover this high level.
- Asking for SST vs POL data from TR is a bit odd. Consider that they are now and have always been focused on the time-crunched rider, and pushed the SST approach in all but the rare cases on the fringe. As such, they don’t likely have a nice 50/50 split of data between the two approaches. Even if they have some POL data, I expect it to be far smaller in depth when compared to their SST. Nate’s comments and the apparent history point to them being content with their choices based on the research they’ve done, and any review of applicable data in their hands.
- “nothing new”: Largely true, and leads to the question of why TR needs to spill their data?
- “nothing that is a trade secret”: The raw data may not be a trade secret. But any analysis they’ve done very well could be. Again, they are under no obligation to dump raw data from their paid users. And they sure don’t have to share any internal analysis based on that data.
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FasCat Coaching loves him some Sweetspot training!
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It is a perfectly valid comparison. I am not saying that sweetspot or polarised are revolutionary ideas. The data that they have generated though is a result of their work and effort, as any other product is, and they can do with it as they please.
Who is to say they have collated it, analysed it or have done anything useful with it yet anyway. Just because this is something that has been the subject of research papers, online discussion or something that can be immediately used by any member of the public (to good effect or not) is irrelevant. TrainerRoad is under no obligation to share their data.
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Training is not a science. There is some science to it which is still hotly debated and training has been studied but the conclusions are not always directly applicable to us.
If you study the polarized model and you study the work of Sebastian Weber you can see why SST would work marvelously for a certain type of rider with a certain VLAmax and polarized for another type of rider.
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Not asking for the raw data… but since they have developed the plans, they have collected mountains of data. If they have analyzed the data, there surely are some charts or graphs that could be shared. TR is an expensive platform when you consider that you are getting cookie cutter training plans which you need to pay memberships for each household member. The data and analytics behind the plans is quite valuable and I’d like to see some of it…
99.9999% of folks here (not a scientific figure lol) are really reasonable folks, even when there’s disagreement. I can’t fully wrap my mind around the small number of commenters who seemingly just come on to make demands of TR like they must release data, as if they owe us anything.
If they made user data public then they’d essentially be gifting any potential competitors a treasure trove of information to develop AI and beat TR to the punch. Folks have to look past the sweet spot versus polarized and realize the real future (and money) is analyzing data to adapt training
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- A bit off topic, the plans are a major part of the service for many people (myself include), but there is plenty more beyond that which makes the price valid for many users.
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Bingo… and likely the very reason they won’t share more than high level info, is my guess. Who just gives away things of value anyway?
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Nate shared a range of basic statements in the Bell Curve thread and at least one of the Polarized threads. I won’t try to summarize what I saw from a year ago or more, but there is some basic info, well short of what I know you are asking, but it’s something.
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I think their competitors likely already have that information of their own. Anyone with lots of subscribers uploading all their rides is going to have plenty.
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Definite fair point, although strava doesn’t seem to have the wherewithal to do anything with all the data they get on indoor stuff lol
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Adding features is not really part of the Strava business plan.
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But we don’t pay for the entire TR data set. We pay for our data along with the software and training plans. Your aggressive tone is a little surprising. If you don’t like it, then you are free to stop paying and can use a different service.
Besides, as others have mentioned, in a competitive industry, this is part of their competitive advantage.
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Hey all,
In the context of this conversation please humor me:
- how do you define polarized training?
- Do people plan an entire year around polarized training?
It seems to be that this conversation (and not just here) has become overly simplified. Taking a peak at the concept of periodization, I feel confused about the topic of “it’s either SS training, OR Polarized training” - doesn’t it depend on what training phase you’re in? Doesn’t some/all the build and specialty phases employ a polarized approach.
Thank you for helping clarify this for me!
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To quote the great Vick Reeves (UK comedian) 87.9% of statistics are made up on the spot… 
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