a lotta people end up just talking past each other for the reason you highlighted.
they say “polarized” and they don’t actually have the same thing in mind
or they say “sweet spot is ” while making different assumptions about how it gets worked macro or meso cycle
you definitely need to bear this in mind when perusing all the topics
the adaptive training to your personal power curve is where the future is
You mean the past, right?
I don’t have any trouble holding tempo or SS.
I switched to polarized last spring because I was always fatigued. The biggest benefit was the shift in lactate curve, more endurance, durability. After a 12 week polarized base I could do my 3 hour Saturday group ride and not have it put me in the gutter for the rest of the day.
My polarized is “organic” - lots of Z1/2 riding. The 3 hour group ride on the weekend includes about 30 minutes of threshold and 30 minutes of tempo/SS. That puts me around 90/10 on a 10 hour week.
I experimented with Overton’s style of SS/tempo/Z2 and it left me very fatigued. I could probably do that if I did a 2 weeks on / 1 week off type of schedule. (I’m 53 going on 54. If I were 25 again I could probably do 3 weeks on or 4 weeks on.)
I just finished my base phase so I was thinking of trying to do a Seiler pure polarized build. Start with the 8min intervals and build up to 4 or 5x8 and see what it does for me.
i wouldn’t be so sure about that
Like they say “your mileage may vary” as I’m older and both TrainerRoad / FasCat style sweet spot base training works for me. Even did SSB-1 High Volume (5 weeks on, 1 week off) a couple years ago, although I suspect it only worked because I started with a higher training load (CTL) in my legs than this season’s starting point (essentially started from zero). Right now I’m doing an Overton/FasCat sweet spot plan because it integrates the long weekend ride into the plan/progression, has plenty of zone2 work, and I don’t have enough training in my legs to do the 4x SS per week of TR mid-volume plan. Oh, and I’ll be honest and say “too lazy” to use TR low-volume plan and design out out my own weekly training load progressions.
Thank you, that’s what I was missing.
When I look at my first planned peak in May using plan builder (XCO plan) it’s very close to a polarized plan leading up to that. Anaerobic and VO2 Max workouts with endurance rides in between. The only thing in the way is, yep, that SS workout on the weekends.
Are you sure? I seem to recall him talking about 65-70% of HRmax unless you can do a lactate test and know your LT1.
Of course, everybody is different but 70% of FTP would definitely take me out of Seiler’s zone 1.
Since you are coming back from surgery I’d start at square one with a polarized base meaning 100% Seiler zone 1 for at least 4 weeks. After that reassess and insert a weekly interval set. You could even do a block of SS as your interval training and then progress to Seiler style 8min intervals if that works out nicely.
Seems to mirror what I documented in my chart:
Top of Z1: ~80% 60 Min Power, ~75% HR Max, ~67% VO2 Max
Note that this is my summary from listening to the related casts (3 or more) and several of them included references that did not match prior comments. So, it’s all confusing and you can probably find more than one value for each of the steps. I know, because it made the act of making my chart rather challenging 
I guess since we’re all throwing our hats into the ring/thread, I might as well do the same!
This year I’ve decided to do a reverse inverted SS → POL training plan (cuz it’s still winter here and cuz I still have unresolved health weirdness). Next couple of months will be building up Tempo/SS volume w/ indoor rides, then once the weather turns ridable I’ll be “progressing” to increased volume w/ long Z2 outdoor rides. So kinda backwards – intensity into volume – but it’s all I got at this point.
And for those who aren’t racing…you can kinda do whatever you feel like. You might not be squeezing the maximum marginal gains out of your physiology, but as long as you’re riding, you’ll be keeping fit and probably happier than the rest of us! 
Not sure where you heard this. I think there’s a lot of confusion about Sweet Spot and just how much you do. Remember, Sweet Spot is only done part of the season. Generally during the classic early-season Base phase. It’s not something that TrainerRoad is asking you to do year round. There are BLOCKS of Sweet Spot that are done to kickstart a new season that help you build and ramp your CTL. Which will happen faster if you do Sweet Spot training versus Traditional/Long Slow Distance. (Assuming you are time-crunched)
Then you progress to a Build phase, and Specialty after that.
You can experiment by doing a Traditional Base approach, but I would guess that even with 8-12 hours (still definitely time-crunched) you might continue to find more gains following a Sweet Spot approach. As always, experimenting is never a bad thing to do. Also worth noting that long slow rides can drive certain aerobic adaptations that only doing Sweet Spot cannot.
Have you gone through a full training cycle following Trainer Road plans? By that I mean, Sweet Spot Base 1 & 2, Build, and Specialty?
Just 1 and 2… but that’s not the point. If they have data to show that sweetspot is the best plan, they would show the data…and should show the data. There is no reason not to show it. If the data is inconclusive, they may not be showing it. Peoples fitness may be improving using Sweetspot base but if the data doesn’t prove that it’s better than Polarized, then I can see why it’s not being shown.
“Eighty-two-point-four percent of people believe 'em
Whether they’re accurate statistics or not”
Nice chart! In Intervals.icu I convert 7 zone to 3 zone by just combining and get numbers not too different:
That simple step addition is really clever, I like it 
Makes sense, especially at the top end since the High Intensity is generally aimed at being over FTP.
I have no stake in the polarized vs non polarized debate. I’m still learning on that front. But I do know data. And having data and knowing what to do with it are two totally different things. So just because they aren’t posting it, doesn’t mean they are necessarily wrong.
And all this talk of ML and AI using that dataset and thinking TR is about to release something any minute. They are not even close.
as alluded to above in this thread: a big yes. My diesel was simply underdeveloped. Most of my races are 4-6h with lots of climbing at SST. Introducing this type of work in April was too late. In the past the second half of a race was always my strength. Not this season. Riding around well below LT1 for the entire winter was nothing but generating junk miles. Those two HIT sessions per week did not produce any noticable improvement. And quite frankly, this is not really something I would expect anyway. For that I have to many cycling years in my legs. It’s that diesel, the economy, where you can still develop. Especially when more experienced.
Sure seems like a problem for me too, in my limited experience with polarized. I don’t race, but love doing longer 4-6 hour rides. Feel like I should have been doing at least a couple 3x30 sweet spot in early January. Better late than never. Sure seems like muscular endurance workouts have been important prior to going all-in on intensity. That is why I think a block of polarized only makes sense after finishing 16-20 weeks of base. 
Easy days should be easy. Therefore, 60-70% FTP intensity. My LT1 is fairly high. Riding 4-5h at LT1 is not easy for me. As said before, I ride >=20h/week.
4x8min of course. With exactly 2min rest. Tried to adhere to the pure faith
