Sweet Spot Base 2: 4 weeks from 6 without a sweetspot workout šŸ¤·šŸ¼ā€ā™‚ļø

I am currently enthusiastically training the Sweetspot Basis Plan 1 and 2 Plan.
In Base 2, weeks 3, 4 and 5 of the 6 weeks are without a single sweet spot unit. (Week 6 is a regeneration week). Instead, it is exclusively VO2max and Threshold workouts. I wonder if thatā€™s right, the plan is called Sweet Spot Base ā€¦

My bet is Low Volume. As such, there is little actual SS in there, due to the very limited training time.

There are SS Sundays as default in the Mid Vol, and High Vol is almost exclusively SS.

I get his overall point, and have made similar comments in the past, with respect to plan naming.

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Low Volume II

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i checked the different volume on my current plan now:

Sweet Spot Base 2:

  • Low Volume I:
    Week 4: 2xSweetspot 1xThreshold
    Week 5: 2xSweetspot 1xThreshold

  • Low Volume II:
    Week 4: 1xVO2max 2xThreshold
    Week 5: 1xVO2max 2xThreshold

  • Medium Volume I:
    Week 4: 3xSweetspot 1xThreshold 1xEndurance
    Week 5: 3xSweetspot 1xThreshold 1xEndurance

  • Medium Volume II:
    Week 4: 1xSweetspot 2xThreshold 1xVO2max 1xEndurance
    Week 5: 1xSweetspot 2xThreshold 1xVO2max 1xEndurance

It seems like the ā€œPart IIā€ has less or no Sweet Spot Workouts in weeks 3,4 and 5, even if the name of this Block is Sweet Spot Base

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A couple of things in Chadā€™s defenseā€¦

  1. Workouts like Taylor and Bluebell might be VO2/Anaerobic Power but theyā€™re not VO2 heart rate. Looking at the last few rides of Taylor-1 for instance, all the recent people that have completed it with heart rate have had heart rates in the 150-160 range for the intervals (starting at the low end and rising) which is entirely consistent with Sweet Spot, but due to the added power requirement probably also giving more benefits.

  2. The low, and arguably mid volume plans are always going to be a trade off due to the time limitations. Low volume especially, for anyone but a beginner would be tough to get a good training stimulus just riding sweet spot workouts IMO.

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Thatā€™s why I do a hybrid of MV and HV in the winter for my base. I lengthen the SS workouts during the week and keep the o/u at the weekend during SSB1 and then keep the VO2 max and o/u in SSB2 and bin the threshold stuff from the Thursday and keep a longer SS session - I also use the gym once a week during Oct - Feb. I consider it to early in the training cycle for threshold like Lamarck but VO2 and o/u are not done by me in the spring so I keep them in.

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@alexgold123ā€™s second point is probably the more important of the two. Thereā€™s a minimum effective training stimulus so if you reduce the volume then you need to up the intensity to reach it.

Iā€™d add ā€¦

  1. You shouldnā€™t view each plan in isolation. The latter weeks of SSB increase intensity in preparation for the Build phase.

Interesting that there was a long (and occasionally heated) thread on here when someone said there was too much emphasis on sweet spot in the plans!

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My take on it is that, if I do a ramp test at the beginning of the plan phase I, then by the time I get to Lamarck/Mary Austin/Leconte, Iā€™m a bit fitter and those threshold workouts feel more like Sweet Spot. I know the plan has a ramp test at the beginning of phase II, but I donā€™t retest then (donā€™t tell anyone I said that thoughā€¦).

I donā€™t think I could complete Mary Austin or Leconte if I retested just before I did them. They are really tough workouts

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I just found my new favourite workout tactic!

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I rarely do Leconte anywayā€¦and Mary Austin comes in the same boatā€¦they are to much like races IMO to be done in winter and burn to many mental matches. I can cope with McAdie/Warlow/Fang Mountain/Avalanche spire and Carpathian Peak(if you put a gun to my head!) and their variations - anything worse than that I would need a number on my arse. Same with VO2 max - Dade+1 - fair enough - Spencer+2 erā€¦no! :laughing:

I also think itā€™s important to keep in mind that the people who came up with the concept of sweet spot training (FasCatā€™s Frank Overton, Dr Andrew Coggin, etc.) not only applied the term to a certain power zone but also to the overall training stress in a training phase.

Sweet spot training in the macro sense was about finding the ā€˜sweet spotā€™ or balance for intensity vs duration for a time crunched athlete during the base phase. Essentially the finding a way to pack the most TSS into your training to maximize your CTL while managing fatigue.

These two articles do a pretty good job describing how sweet spot workouts have their place in the overall training structure.

Though they are from a different coach than @chad, they can still give you some insight into the methodology behind creating training plans.

TL;DR With time crunched athletes that have a strict(ish) amount of time they can devote to training, at some point, the only way to increase your training volume is to increase intensity.

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Timely podcast that is worth a listen on this SS topic, and other issues:

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That was an excellent listen and gives a lot of background on the development of SS and just general training.

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Spencer +2 is brutal. I just it again on Tuesday and it was a not so nice reminder how tough it is. I think that may be my least favorite workout

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Thank you for the many very interesting articles about Sweet Spot Training. My question was why Sweet Spot Base 2 doesnā€™t contain a single sweet spot training in 3 weeks. I am now thinking about sticking to Low Volume II and adding a fourth workout (sweet spot) or increasing to Medium Volume and occasionally deleting the fifth session when I donā€™t have enough time

And it was answered:

The short time leads to more intensity, which means little to no actual ā€œSweet Spotā€ work. Hence the reason I mentioned the naming issue and linked to the prior discussion on the same topic.

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On a low volume plan, just went through the specialty block (and maybe beyond?) where it was v02 max workouts for 2 of the 3 workouts, with the 3rd being threshhold. Very hard, I feared every v02 workout but I made my way through it and feel stronger for it.

Now it wants me to do what appears to be fairly easy sweet spot workouts for a while. Whatā€™s the value in this? Assuming I feel adequately recovered from my v02 max workouts. Is this just to prevent burnout? According to metrics, I seemed to be making steady progress during that v02 max block. I wouldnā€™t mind just doing one v02 max workout a week, but is this much backing off necessary?

Not only do the upcoming SS workouts seem relatively easy, but they want me to adjust downward, making them look very easy. Should I just adjust and make the SS workouts as challenging as needed? Iā€™m sure thereā€™s a logic to this but Iā€™m not quite seeing it.

We donā€™t have enough info to answer with any certainty. If you used Plan Builder to apply your training plan, you may be in a ā€œreturn to baseā€ type phase depending on how long you are out from your A-level event or whatever you did to set an end date.

Broadly speaking, if you are questioning your plan, it is best to email support@trainerroad.com. They have direct access to your account, training plan and everything on your calendar without the need to post and repeat it all here, such that forum members can give any meaningful advice.