Struggling With TR vs Zwift Workout Rating Scales

TrainerRoad Software
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Ok, maybe I’m late to the party on this, but I was looking at another Forum post that gave some extended ‘definitions’ of the different TR workout ratings. That post was backed up by the TR website, which shows the following:

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Looking at the descriptions of the workout ratings when completing a TR workout in Zwift, though, I see this:

  1. Nothing at all
  2. Very easy
  3. Easy
  4. Comfortable
  5. Slighly challenging
  6. Difficult
  7. Hard
  8. Very hard
  9. Extremely hard
  10. Max effort

And based on what I see in the TR app for my Zwift workouts, the Zwift rating appears to, effectively, be cut in half and round up to the next whole number to match with the related TR rating.

Intrinsically I have no issue with this. However, now that I’ve seen the TR rating descriptions, Im suddenly wondering if I’m giving the workouts I do I. Zwift too hard of a rating.

Example: yesterday I did Creise. I rated this as 8 (very hard) because it felt, well, very hard. In TR this was rated as 8/2=4 (very hard). However, had I been aware of the actual TR rating descriptions, I would have rated this workout as ‘Moderate’ (a 2), as I’m sure I could have completed (at least) one more set of intervals. Going back to the Zwift ratings, a 2/Moderate would equate to 3/Easy or 4/Comfortable in the Zwift ratings, and thus workout was neither of these.

So, IMO, being that the TR workout ratings have been around for much longer than the related Zwift ratings, my feeling is that the rating descriptions in Zwift should be updated to indicate something more on par with the related TR rating to which they will be equated.

Additionally, I’m now thinking I need to go back an re-rate yesterday’s workout, and possible some from previous weeks, also.

Thoughts?

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“If it sounds good, it’s good” - Duke Ellington, i.e. if it felt hard, it was hard. Don’t overthink it.

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On the face, I agree with that sentiment. However, TR is using this information to determine my future workouts, and I want my training to be as good as possible, it seems critical that I (and everyone else) get this correct. If I am using the Zwift rating of ‘very hard’ when the workout feels ‘very hard’, but I could still have done another set of intervals, but TR is interpreting that as ‘very hard’, and I would not have been able to do another set of intervals, my adaptations are likely to be very different than if I rated the workout as ‘moderate’.

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In my experience, TrainerRoad’s and Zwift’s scales line up pretty well; I answer them pretty honestly in Zwift and when I check the corresponding rating in TrainerRoad I’m always like “yep, seems about right.” That said, you can always update the rating in TrainerRoad if what you put in Zwift doesn’t map the way you thought (or you could skip rating in Zwift entirely and do it in TR when the completed workout syncs back).

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I actually dismiss the Zwift rating and rate the workout in TrainerRoad afterwards. I have also become accustomed to the rating system in TrainerRoad using that extended definition so decided to keep using it instead.

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I’ve never understood why TR choose a 1-5 scale for rating workouts, every other app/website uses 1-10 and even when you go to physio or such like you are asked on “a 1-10 scale, how much does it hurt?”.

Having both the same would be much easier.

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But this just seems to confirm my issue: it shouldn’t matter where the workout is rated. The rating descriptions just need to be consistent.

1 or 2 in Zwift should equal ‘easy’ in TR; 3 or 4 in Zwift should equal ‘moderate’ in TR; etc. But the descriptions in Zwift for the different ratings don’t really match up with the (extended) descriptions in TR. for that matter, unless a person is familiar with the extended TR descriptions, even the TR short description ratings don’t really make sense.

I suppose that the immediate ‘solution’ is for me to just make a cheat sheet of the extended TR descriptions, and then equate those with the related number/description in Zwift, and move on. But I still think that updating the Zwift descriptions with something more in line with the TR extended description would be helpful. I actually think there is enough space in Zwift to put the entire extended description, just to make everything clear.

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I’d avoid trying to create some sort of formula that converts Zwift ratings to TR ratings. :sweat_smile:

We did our best to ensure that the two line up as closely as possbile, but if you’re struggling to make a confident decision with Zwift’s 10 options after a workout, I’d follow @stickmandj’s advice and fill out the survey in TR instead.

That way, you have the TR descriptions to reference to ensure that you’re getting it right.

It’s important to trust your gut a bit in these situations, though.. Switching from a “Very Hard” response to “Moderate” is a big jump. The “Hard” rating also says that you would have been able to do another interval with some focus, so maybe that would have been the right choice for your recent Creise workout. :person_shrugging:

It’s sometimes easy to say that you could’ve done more after the workout is over, but I often like to ask myself those questions right after the end of the second to last interval, right before the last one, and/or just before the last one ends. I use that response in my survey. After cooling down and getting off my bike, my emotions have usually already changed. :tired_face: :downcast_face_with_sweat: :frowning_face_with_open_mouth: :roll_eyes: :smirking_face:

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How to leave TR AI?
9

In the end, I did change that workout from Very Hard to Hard, and not to Moderate. However, I’d still be interested in a ‘conversation table’, just so that I can be sure I understand how it works.

Today is a good example. With TR basically having a rating system of 1 to 5, and Zwift having a rating system of 1 to 10, my presumption has been that the conversation is just to halve the Zwift rating, and round up, to get to the TR rating. However, I gave today’s workout a rating of 3 in Zwift, figuring this would translate to Moderate in TR (roundup(3/2)=2), but it actually translated to Easy (which, to be fair, is the description of the 3 rating in Zwift, but renders my formula useless).

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It sounds like, in this case, simply filling out the survey based on how the workout felt was the best option. Again, I’d ditch trying to crack the code and simply follow your gut to guide you to a response. That seems to work well for you! :sweat_smile:

How to leave TR AI?
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It would be helpful to know how TrainerRoad uses the Zwift workout scale. Do 1, 2 and 3 ratings all translate to "easy” in TR, and so on up the scale, or does TR scale those ratings internally to help determine AF FTP?

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I’ve been wondering this same thing recently, especially because if TR really is just doing a ‘1, 2, or 3 in Zwift = Easy in TR”, then why go to the trouble of having a different scale in Zwift than in TR? :man_shrugging:

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They’re two different companies and they each already had a scale (TR 1-5, Zwift 1-10). You get the Zwift survey for any workout, not just TR ones.

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Nigel, the “code” is the easy part. (1-3 = Easy, the rest goes up in 2’s.)
The biggest mindshift for me there was the value of 6! When I rated a workout as 6 and saw it translated as “Hard” - while it was the harder side of moderate, but not hard.

The bigger thing for me is the interpretation of Hard vs Very Hard (in most cases) or Moderate vs Hard. Your table summarises that well, thank you!

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There’s a survey after Zwift workouts, too? I used to do some of those before I signed up for TR (a year ago) and don’t recall ever being asked to rate the workout. Is this new-ish?

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Hmm. I have to admit you have me questioning myself now because it’s been so long since I did a workout in Zwift that was NOT from TR. I would have said I was positive it was there when I was using TP or TD for workouts, but now I wonder. Maybe someone else can chime in with their non-TR experience?

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I don’t think Zwift shows the RPE survey for workouts other than TrainerRoad’s (at least I haven’t seen it for workouts I create in Intervals.icu). I suspect what happened was that TrainerRoad asked Zwift to add a post-workout survey when they were collaborating on the integration, but Zwift built it in a way they could later use for other things, i.e. a traditional 1-10 scale instead of TrainerRoad’s scale, but Zwift simply hasn’t turned it on for anyone else.

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This makes a lot of sense, especially given Zwift’s entrance into the ‘fitness tracking’ arena. :thinking:

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