Goal of adding strength training this winter to my routine. Would love some feedback on my plan and tell me if I’m nuts or on the right path.
This last year I would usually get 12-16 hours on the bike a week. Usually intensity(SS and up) on Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday and endurance rides on Wednesday and Sunday, Monday/Friday were complete off days
For the winter I’m gonna cut that back to a max of 7 hours, Tuesday/Thursday(1 hour/day) will be VO2 and Threshold(1.5-2hours) on Saturday.(a reverse periodization makes sense for my discipline, ultra distance gravel) Closer to spring the the V02 work will get replaced with SS work)
Plan to do the Starting Strength routine 3 times a week. I’ve read it’s recommended to do Strength and Bike work as far apart from each other but in the same day. Early morning V02 doesn’t sound appealing, so I will give lifting in the mornings and riding in the evenings a go. If this doesn’t work I will try lifting on Wednesday/Friday/Sunday. Depending on how it plays out, short endurance rides on the easy end of efforts(i.e. Pettit, Townsend, Etc.) might get added back in on Wednesday and Sunday.
Once we get closer to spring, I will cut lifting back to 2 days a week and enter more of a maintenance mode as I will begin ramping up volume on the bike.
Think this sounds ok? or a disaster waiting to happen?
Probably better to ride first and lift second. Lifting raises mtor which leads to cellular hypertrophy. It sticks around for about 18 hrs. Endurance work increases AmpK which shuts off mtor and last 2-3 hrs.
If your ultimate goal is to be a faster cyclist you should do your hard cycling workouts first, then strength work afterwards. If you don’t really care about being the fastest cyclist “you” can be then it doesn’t matter what order you do them in…you’ll still be a better all around athlete/human by adding strength training to your plan.
Maybe just go to doing them on different days then?
Goal is to be faster and more ‘durable’. I don’t believe I have the free time/schedule to hit my fastest, and previous experience says VO2 before breakfast doesn’t work and I don’t have the time to eat 2-3 hours before in the morning.
Eat a good dinner with carbs the evening before your hard V02 session, wake up, have a cup of coffee, take a SIS gel and get on the bike. After 30 minutes take another gel if needed. No need for a big breakfast before an early morning V02 session if you fueled properly the evening before.
I have tried all that, the RPE on anything over endurance in that state is just through the roof. I’m not saying I can’t do it, but I don’t ‘enjoy’ it and then motivation tanks and then eventually compliance tanks.
In the book “Body by Science” by John Little and Doug McGuff, Little, who owns a Nautilus Gym in Toronto ( I think), describes a study which showed that trainees that trained more intermittently like once every 7 to 10 days had greater strength gains than those that trained more frequently. The book is a proponent of super slow training to total muscular failure, one set and done.
Personally I lift once/week, and ride the other days. At age 67 I need to maximize recovery, would not do 2 workouts of any kind in one day.
Here is something I’m struggling with. Age 61. W/kg 2.5. Doing Low Volume Grand Fonda on T-Th-Sat. Lifting weights on Monday, Weds. Doing exactly like Dylans video, and Chad. Monday is stair climber, Dead Life, Push-ups, Planks, Rows. Wed. Is stair climber, squats, bench press, lunges, military press, calf raises . I’m past the two month base phase of lifting and moving to 10-8-6-4 sets with heavier weights. Problems is I’m beginning to fail the workouts more often than I believe I should. I’m up in the 3.5-4.5 ranking. I think I’m doing the right things for winter training. Would reordering the weight days help. Maybe Squats on Monday, ride Tuesday, Deadlift Wed. Rest Thursday, ride Friday and Sunday. Or just keep plugging away and let Adaptive Training make adjustments. I have a good 7 months until multi-day touring.
You mean failing the TR workouts? If yes, and if Grand Fondo LV program looks like I recall, that’s not surprising. Throwing sweetspot, threshold and over threshold work at your legs while simultaneously driving up the strength work is probably not going to work.
When hitting the weights harder, I can only do endurance and maybe low tempo work. Trying to combine weights with HIT/SIT or high tempo to Threshold doesn’t work as I can’t recover. So end up shortchanging both the weights and the rides which isn’t good.
My programming is to set aside 12-16 weeks fall season into winter and focus on lifting and strength work. I use 4-5 day a week strength programming and go all in. Rides during this time period will be endurance level work 2-3 days a week.
When it’s time to rotate into a riding focus, I shift to a five day a week riding program and strength becomes 2 days a week maintenance with drastically reduced leg work.
I don’t know what AT will do in your situation. Suspect it would keep reducing the intensity but don’t know. I’d suggest being proactive and shift to strength + endurance work. If you want a TR plan to follow, the Traditional LV base is a starting point. You might need to start with 75% or so of the time per ride and build up (if done on top of weightlifting and serious leg work).
A possible Split:
Monday - Weights
Tuesday - TR Traditional Base LV ride
Wed - Rest
Thursday - Weights
Friday - TR Traditional Base LV Ride
Saturday - TR Traditional Base LV Ride
Sunday - Rest
That would give you rest days before each weight day. Since focus is weights for this period you do the endurance ride day after. If you need to bump down the intensity that’s fine.
If you want six days of work and four rides, add endurance work on Wed or Sun.
Hope that helps a bit. There are many ways to approach this situation so others might have better advice!
At 67 years old, I lift weights only once/week, and a second day of bodyweight core exercises. I’ve been at the weights since Sept, taking them back up after travelling cross country this summer. I increase weights 5 lb each session, as per Starting Strengthd, and have gotten to my limit with overhead press and getting close with squats. I schedule the day off after weight day, but am planning an endurance day as I move to a modified polar program on the bike.
You are doing more serious weight lifting than I am, but your point is well taken. Last year I was doing Cross Fit and riding. the coach suggested I focus more on CF and less on riding for the winter and then switch back. The problem is that I got injured with a torn calf muscle. Everything suffered and the riding is `10% below the prior year (which was one of my best). So I know I need weight lifting but how much? Two days seems rational.
Another thought is to ride in the AM and do weights in the PM for two days leaving maximum rest time. Bull all in all I think I like your ideas of staying with endurance and Tempo for the winter and switching it up come March.
I’m a year or two younger than you, three years ago I tried combining strength and TrainerRoad SSB. Failed miserably. Tried again two years ago with strength and TR’s Traditional Base, that went better. A year ago I used FasCat’s off-season strength training 10 week plan and that programming worked very well. I also own a 19 week plan from Scientific Triathlon but its perhaps better after I do a couple years consistent combined strength+cycling.
This year I’m trying a “less is more” approach, using this routine
Thanks to @brennus for mentioning this in some thread, somewhere on the forum.
While I’m not elite, one thing I’ve learned from my cycling coach is that you can stimulate on the bike adaptations with fewer intervals than what I was doing on TR plans. Spend your energy budget wisely I say. So I’m taking a similar approach with strength training. I’m also doing the FasCat recommended 12-minute Foundation and some other hip/core work.
In my opinion people are often making this strength training thing way more complicated than it needs to be. Just do Squats, Deadlifts, pull-ups and push-ups twice a week in a slow but steady progression and you’ve got 90% of the benefits covered. The remaining 10% consisting of isolated and single leg work is just the icing on the cake and should be added last.
Once you can squat 1 - 1.5 times bodyweight for reps you’ll 100% feel the benefits on and off the bike.
