Saturday: Pro Fuel and Hydration app: User inquiries

Hi,

I started using saturday for fueling my training and my goal event in April.

I think the recommondations are good for my training on the turbo. But I’m really confused about the amount of fluid recommended for longer rides.

I have a 3 hour high endurance ride scheduled for today and Saturday recommends 4.2L during that time.
In April I ride Mallorca 312. 312km with 5100 meters of elevation. It should take me between 13 and 14 hours. If I calculate with 14 hours Saturday recommends 16.9 Liters of fluid and 56 gramms of salt.
That seems pretty far off. I mean sure one has to drink enough but there is also something like drinking too much.
Is that really recommended or a bug in the software?

I agree that the fluid recommendations can be generous. At the same time 1-1.2 L per hour is not unreasonable.

First thing to do is to complete a few longer rides, and note how often you have to pee, and observe the color of your pee. I’d be looking for a light yellow color. If it is (almost) clear you might be drinking too much, dark yellow means you are drinking too little.

If the recommendation is too high, check is your sweat level under Personalize. Set that appropriately. Also, if I build the recipe for a ride I get better results if I rate my estimated level less than what I think it should be.

I think the app could benefit from some better definition of how to rate your individual sweat level.

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As @Duppie606 noted, you may need to personalize it somewhat. Your sweat level may be too high, for example.

On the other hand, I’ll note that I thought the drinking quantity recommendations absurdly high until I started trying it and found that my performance and sense of well-being increased dramatically.

I haven’t yet managed to drink as much as it wants me to drink, and it still feels like a lot. But I am now drinking substantially more than before, and the closer I get to the app’s recommendations, the better I perform AND the better I feel.

So at this time, I’m firmly in the “the app is probably right, damnit” camp and am gradually trying to continue increasing how much I drink. :grin:

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+1 on this. Once I got the sodium ratio right I feel much better through out the ride AND don’t feel like I need to pull over to pee either.

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Yeah, this was my experience as well. I have a long history of chronically underfueling, and the app does a great job of lining up exactly how much I need.

It makes an especially big difference for very early morning rides (5am-6am), where now I actually feel good and have energy on hard rides rather slogging through and always feeling like I’m falling behind.

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How did you get the sodium ratio right for you?
Not asking about the sodium related peronsalization sliders in the app, but rather how did you figure out what the right amount of sodium was for you.

That’s a pretty good question. I mean in the context of my event the app says 16.9l and 56gramm of sodium.
That’s more than is possible with the food stops available. 6 Stops, the last two only roughly an hour apart.
That means max would be 2x 1L bottles at the start, on the first 4 stops another 2 bottles each stop and one bottle on each of the last stops. Makes 12L max that I can get along the route. But what would that mean for my sodium intake.
I mean how much sodium I loose has nothing to do with how much water I consume, because it’s more about sweating right? Maybe a bit because I might sweat a little more when better hydrated.

So should I stick with 56gramms of sodium wether with 12l or 16.9L fluid intake? Is there any harm in taking in too much salt once, and if so what would be a critical mass?

And how do I determine how much I need? I’m from europe, the gatorade sweat patches are not available here unfortunately.

I kind of got lucky before the app I was just using Nuun tabs with nothing extra, but on a 5-6 hour ride even in the heat, I’d have to pee. I got the app and started adding an additional gram of sodium citrate per liter, and that all but stopped. I could probably go up just a little bit more, and I might tinker with that before Sea Otter. If I JUST did liquid I’d bump it up, but I also do blocks, gels, solids and try to stick close to the total sodium number that comes up in the app when planning a ride.

My non scientific method is, start by going with the total sodium suggested in the app. If you have to pee more than once in the middle of the ride, bump it up. Using sodium citrate is probably safer as it won’t cause gut distress as quickly as table salt will.

@Dr_Alex_Harrison how do you know you’re using too much Sodium Citrate? Same symptoms? gut distress? Will table salt cause that at a lesser dose?

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I am also in this camp quite often, ironically.

Great advice.

Yep, same symptoms. Usually lower GI issues, rumbling, need for the loo. Yeah, table salt will cause that at a lower sodium-per-hour intake rate.

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I just started using the Saturday app and I think I must be mucking something up since it is giving me a LOT of carbs per hour. For example, I have Gold Hill today, which I will do outside. The total ride time will probably end up being 1:20 instead of the 1:00 Gold Hill calls for because I need some extra time to get to and from the road I use for my outdoor training rides. If I put in 1:20 and mark it as a VO2 max effort, I get ~70gms of carbs per hour. This seems really high to me.

If I put 1:00 in and mark it as a VO2 max effort, I get ~45gms of carbs per hour. The 45gms per hour seems more accurate since the extra time it takes me to get to and from the start will be pretty easy riding. Does that sound right?

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I moved your post under the dedicated one for the app & user questions / discussion.

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Thanks! I did see the old thread but wasn’t sure bumping it was the right thing. Will keep my questions to this thread.

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I can’t speak for @Dr_Alex_Harrison, but I believe the app tends to bump up the carb requirement the longer the workout. If you’ve only got an hour workout there’s not much “refilling” time that can happen for the carbs to be replenished. Where as with the 1:20 you’ve got more time to replenish carbs so it’s giving you more.

The app also doesn’t know if you’ve got 10 minutes either side that’s easy, it thinks that you’ve got 1:20 all at VO2.

Personally 70gm/h is about what I sit at most rides and don’t find it too much. I find with the app it’s easiest if you don’t over think it.
You can adjust your Satiety level in the app to be more “balanced” or “whole food” which should reduce the carbs per hour if you think that it’s giving you too much.

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Duration definitely has a big impact, from what I’ve seen - there seem to be different points or thresholds in duration that lead to big increases in fueling recommendations. I notice it mostly around the 2 hr mark - if I decide I want to ride 2:05 or 2:10, it suddenly has a big increase, regardless of intensity, but that’s because I don’t do a lot of 1 hr workouts. Mine are usually 1:15 or longer. Also, sometimes my workout is split between VO2 at the front end and endurance at the back, I may knock down intensity one notch, but I’ve also played with that slider and it doesn’t always make a big difference - duration is frequently the biggest factor.

I usually end up bringing the full amount and I may end up slightly under at the end if I really feel good, but I have also found that the full amount makes a big difference in how I feel both during, after, and the next day.

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It can’t be thinking all 1:20 is at a VO2 max effort though since nobody can actually do that.

This is good advice. I never overthink anything. :slight_smile:

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I used the app for a threshold workout on Sunday. I was surprised at how much it suggested I eat but I ended up taking in the full amount and felt good. I was not nearly as tired or hungry after the ride as I thought I’d be. And I didn’t seem to be as sore the next day as I would have expected. Perhaps I’ve just been underfueling harder efforts for a while now.

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But it’s thinking that you’re doing VO2 efforts for the 1:20 (plus warm up/cool down)
E.g. the difference between Clouds Rest and Johnstrup
Both are VO2 one just has efforts for 1:00 vs 1:15

If you really want to overthink it :wink: you could create a brick workout with three rides. One for getting there, one for the effort, and one for the ride home. If I do that it for 10m easy/60m VO2/10m easy it gives 10g/75g/10g vs saying 1:20 for VO2 it gives me 100g total, so a difference of 5g

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My experience mirrors this. I look at what the app tells me to fuel, I think “my God, that’s too much, how could that be right?”

But then I figure it’s probably based on a lot of good data, I try to fuel as much as it says, I end up slightly under (but well over what I would have fueled on my own).

And I end up feeling much better than I thought I would, or am used to feeling. And I’ve read the same kind of comment from a bunch of other people on this thread, too. So yeah, it seems like many of us have been underfueling before.

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The app gives me 80-90 g/hour on high aerobic rides over 3 hours. While I struggle to consume all the liquid as the ride goes on, I have noticed that I haven’t bonked once since using this app. That includes 3 rides of 11 plus hour elapsed time. During those rides, I consume small amounts of gas station food, primarily to vary flavor.,
So for me the app is a definite improvement for fueling correctly.
Oh, and I use table sugar and sodium citrate, with every other bottle also getting a Nuun tablet.

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The app was designed by overthinkers so that we could all stop overthinking. We wanted a solution that allowed us to turn our brains off and just go ride.

We think that’s what the cycling world needs, too.

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